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Minutes of 2011-03-31 LLD meeting

From: <gordon@gordondunsire.com>
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 21:55:18 +0100 (BST)
To: public-xg-lld@w3.org
Message-ID: <1168295367.91104.1301604918170.JavaMail.open-xchange@oxltgw05.schlund.de>
All
 
The minutes of our call today are at
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/03/31-lld-minutes.html
 
A text version follows.
 
Cheers
 
Gordon
 
 
====
 
[1]W3C
 
[1] http://www.w3.org/
 
LLD XG
 
31 Mar 2011
 
[2]Agenda
 
[2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011Mar/0088.html
 
See also: [3]IRC log
 
[3] http://www.w3.org/2011/03/31-lld-irc
 
Attendees
 
Present
antoine, pmurray, emma, boris, AlexanderH, jeff_, TomB,
rsinger, marcia, felix, ww, kai, Jodi, GordonD, kcoyle, edsu,
digikim, michaelp, jneubert
 
Regrets
monica, ray, kevin, lars
 
Chair
Emmanuelle
 
Scribe
Gordon
 
Contents
 
* [4]Topics
1. [5]ADMIN
2. [6]FINAL REPORT DRAFT
3. [7]Benefits of LD for libraries
* [8]Summary of Action Items
_________________________________________________________
 
<emma> Previous:
[9]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/03/24-lld-minut
es.html
 
[9] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/03/24-lld-minutes.html
 
<emma> Scribe: Gordon
 
<emma> scribenick:GordonD
 
<uldis> Uldis here. regrets, i can only participate via IRC today.
 
ADMIN
 
RESOLUTION: Accept minutes of previous conference
[10]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/03/24-lld-minu
tes.html
 
[10] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/03/24-lld-minutes.html
 
FINAL REPORT DRAFT
 
<scribe> ACTION: For Gordon and Karen to consider relation between
problems and limitation section and the library resource wiki page.
[recorded in
[11]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/03/24-lld-minu
tes.html#action01] [CONTINUES]
 
[11]
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/03/24-lld-minutes.html#action01
 
Benefits of LD for libraries
 
<scribe> ACTION: emma and ed to start curating a section on benefits
of LLD for libraries [recorded in
[12]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/02/24-lld-minu
tes.html#action06] [DONE]
 
[12]
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/02/24-lld-minutes.html#action06
 
<scribe> ACTION: edsu, rsinger, emma to create a few bullet points
on the benefits of linked data in libraries for the call on March
31st [recorded in
[13]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/03/17-lld-minu
tes.html#action01] [DONE]
 
[13]
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/03/17-lld-minutes.html#action01
 
<antoine> great timing, edsu :-)
 
<edsu> antoine: :-)
 
<rsinger>
[14]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_Benefits#Draft
 
[14] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_Benefits#Draft
 
<digikim> hello, I would like to read the whole report and provide
my/our comments -- can I download the report as a single web page
(or pdf file) somewhere?
 
<digikim> [15]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/DraftReport
<-- I'm aware of this URL
 
[15] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/DraftReport
 
<antoine> @digikim: that would be great, but there's no full report
now! Perhaps a topic for the AOB part at the end of the call?
 
<digikim> antoine: ok
 
rsinger: Held skype call to brainstorm benefits
... Discussed who benefits
 
rsinger: Identified four categories
 
rsinger: Biggest promise is that each community can describe its
world in the way it wants to
 
rsinger: Libraries may have a central role in linked data for
cultural heritage communities
... LD allows layered creation of metadata, starting with
identifiers
... LD allows end-users to see integration with data they are more
familiar with
 
edsu: LD easier for developers to work with
 
<TomB> +1 "infinitely expandable description" is great. Is the
phrase new?
 
rsinger: is probably best/most hope for opening data to other
domains
 
<jeff_> the predicates should also be dereferencable for cases where
they aren't named intuitively
 
rsinger: Web provides infrastructure, so need to develop another one
... We are not alone; others can/will help
... LD provenance problem is being resolved
... Organizations need to understand that their data is more
valuable if openly-published for others to work on
... a counter-argument to concerns about revenue streams, IPR, etc.
... Considered differences between digital library and LD
... LD allows finer granularity for re-use of metadata and use in
resource discovery
... Library authorities data can be managed on a distributed basis
 
Emma: initial bullet-points will be used to double-check other areas
of report
 
<scribe> ACTION: Cluster owners to check the bullet-point list
reflects their understanding and covers relevant points [recorded in
[16]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/03/31-lld-minu
tes.html#action04]
 
kcoyle: End-user category should be expanded; this is the most
important group that decision-makers will consider
 
<marcia> + 1 Karen's point
 
kcoyle: Also expand point about integration with the Web for
resource discovery
 
<jodi> (for me, integration *is* a goal -- because it prevents
libraries being lost in the shuffle)
 
edsu: This is a real challenge for LD
 
<antoine> There are users that could create and remix data:
researcher, general annotators (flickr-like platforms)
 
kcoyle: Libraries are service organizations
 
rsinger: Leap of faith that LD resource discovery interfaces will
happen - other benefits are more obvious and immediate
 
kcoyle: We should emphasise user-centric benefits
 
<edsu> kcoyle: please feel free to move things that yo~u think
should be moved
 
kcoyle: Experience shows a lot of objections when discussing LD with
libraries
 
<jodi> maybe those objections are worth listing!
 
<jodi> to make a kind of Q&A -- with the responses to those
objections...
 
<jodi> kcoyle++
 
<jodi> "respond to those objections in the final report"
 
kcoyle: Final report should acknowledge and respond to such
objections
 
<dvilasuero> +1 karen's point
 
<Zakim> antoine, you wanted to comment on "opening data" in
Organization section and to ask about open world or open data? and
to comment on take an action on cluster editors to check
 
rsinger: Agrees with kcoyle that social benefits are important
 
<edsu> kcoyle: just added "How to get there from here" in the
General section, but it might be better suited for the
Recommendations
 
<kcoyle> edsu: thanks
 
<kcoyle> yes, that's one of the big objections that always comes up
 
antoine: What does Open world mean - it is ambiguous
 
rsinger: Bullet-point probably refers to open data, not Open World
Assumption
 
rsinger: Point needs to be tightened up
 
antoine: Organizations don't have to release all their data, openly
 
<Zakim> edsu, you wanted to mention prose idea
 
<kai> +1 to clearly distinguish between benefits of open data and
benefits of linked data, and of course benefits of linked open data.
 
rsinger: Agree, open data can act like an advertisement for the
organization and its data
 
edsu: Would like another week to create narrative text from the
bullet-points, which are not user-friendly
 
<jodi> I think it's useful to keep the bullet points as well -- so
please don't overwrite them
 
<jodi> (sometimes people prefer bullet points for some purposes)
 
<rsinger> jodi: we won't!
 
<jodi> thanks Ross! :)
 
<scribe> ACTION: edsu, emma, rsinger to create narrative text and
add to bullet-points [recorded in
[17]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/03/31-lld-minu
tes.html#action05]
 
<Zakim> emma, you wanted to challenge the "RDF is cross-domain"
assumption
 
<edsu> jodi: ok :)
 
<uldis> +1 re distinction b/w linked data and linked open data --
both can be useful to libraries
 
<rsinger> +1 # about the model
 
<edsu> TomB: great, i guess we should talk again on skype
 
<TomB> +1 on Skype
 
emma: Challenge assumption that RDF makes everything easy - it is no
different from XML in that respect
 
emma: It is the common data model that makes things easy
 
<jeff_> +1 on the idea that RDF is about the model
 
<uldis> there may be cases when linked data is used inside an
organisation (between its information systems) without necessarily
being open to everyone. (though open would be better :)
 
<jodi> +1 to "common data model"
 
<jeff_> I think the idea of OWL is important when we talk about
models
 
<jodi> there is an identifier you can use to overlay your own
description -- so that's not quite as static as MARC, I think
 
edsu: RDF and XML cannot be said to be mutually exclusive
... Use of identifiers is the big advantage of RDF over XML
 
marcia: Librarians are end-users, so LD can reduce workload, etc.,
but are also intermediaries and can fall into two categories
 
GordonD: We are ALL end-users
 
<Zakim> antoine, you wanted to comment on organization of section
 
antoine: Will group categories be kept in the final version of this
section? They are very helpful
 
edsu: Yes, intention is that each group will have its own narrative
paragraph
 
<antoine> developers are not part of society ? ;-)
 
<rsinger> antoine: they aren't civilized, that's for sure
 
<antoine> :-)
 
emma: Suggest presenting in the form of stories aimed at different
consumers
 
edsu: Would need to be short stories!
 
emma: Should think about prioritising/ordering bullets
 
<antoine> If the number of items is not big per category, order
won't matter too much I think
 
emma: Need to address audience beyond the library community
 
emma: Introduces Daniel, our new member
 
<dvilasuero> Hi
 
<TomB> Great that you are taking on the UC report, Daniel. Welcome!
 
<antoine> +1
 
dvilasuero: I will be producing the use-case/clusters overview, and
welcome any assistance
 
<edsu> dvilasuero++
 
dvilasuero: Hopes to report on progress next week
 
<rsinger> thanks!
 
<antoine> me too!
 
<dvilasuero> thank you very much!
 
<ww> thanks! bye bye for now
 
<digikim> thnx
 
<TomB> I'm still here, so "TomB" must have been a different handle
 
Summary of Action Items
 
[NEW] ACTION: Cluster owners to check the bullet-point list reflects
their understanding and covers relevant points [recorded in
[18]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/03/31-lld-minu
tes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: edsu, emma, rsinger to create narrative text and add
to bullet-points [recorded in
[19]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/03/31-lld-minu
tes.html#action05]
 
[PENDING] ACTION: For Gordon and Karen to consider relation between
problems and limitation section and the library resource wiki page.
[recorded in
[20]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/03/24-lld-minu
tes.html#action01]
 
[20]
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/03/24-lld-minutes.html#action01
 
[DONE] ACTION: edsu, rsinger, emma to create a few bullet points on
the benefits of linked data in libraries for the call on March 31st
[recorded in
[21]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/03/17-lld-minu
tes.html#action01]
[DONE] ACTION: emma and ed to start curating a section on benefits
of LLD for libraries [recorded in
[22]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/02/24-lld-minu
tes.html#action06]
 
[21]
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/03/17-lld-minutes.html#action01
[22]
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/02/24-lld-minutes.html#action06
 
[End of minutes]
_________________________________________________________
 
 
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