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Minutes 2011-01-06 LLD XG Telecon

From: Ross Singer <ross.singer@talis.com>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2011 22:51:55 -0500
Message-ID: <AANLkTin+NrF2-wq6jhYJky=65qUtCsia2HiGAC_U+dr=@mail.gmail.com>
To: public-xg-lld@w3.org
Here are the minutes from today's call:

http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/01/06-lld-minutes.html

Thanks, as always, for being patient with my scribing :)

-Ross.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

   [1]W3C

      [1] http://www.w3.org/

                                LLD XG

06 Jan 2011

   [2]Agenda

      [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011Jan/0005.html

   See also: [3]IRC log

      [3] http://www.w3.org/2011/01/06-lld-irc

Attendees

   Present
          antoine, jeff_, TomB, emma, Uldis, GordonD, markva,
          AlexanderH, rsinger, Jodi, AnetteS, kcoyle, fsasaki, marcia,
          rayd, Phil, kefo, Asaf, Felix, jneubert, monica

   Regrets
          WilliamW, EdSu, MichaelP

   Chair
          Antoine

   Scribe
          rsinger

Contents

     * [4]Topics
         1. [5]Admin
         2. [6]DRAFT OUTLINE FOR FINAL REPORT
         3. [7]USE CASES AND CASE STUDIES
         4. [8]NEW CLUSTER(S)?
         5. [9]TOPICS
     * [10]Summary of Action Items
     _________________________________________________________

   <TomB> Previous:
   [11]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/12/16-lld-minu
   tes.html

     [11] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/12/16-lld-minutes.html

   <antoine> Meeting: LLD XG

   <antoine> Chair: Antoine

   <TomB> antoine - already set up :-)

Admin

   Accept minutes of previous meeting?

   Accepted

   <antoine> RESOLVED: To accept
   [12]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/12/16-lld-minu
   tes.html

     [12] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/12/16-lld-minutes.html

DRAFT OUTLINE FOR FINAL REPORT

   [13]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/FinalReportOutline

     [13] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/FinalReportOutline

   <antoine>
   [14]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011Jan/0014.h
   tml

     [14] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011Jan/0014.html

   markva:added to the wiki page

   markva:three subsections, one for each term

   markva:short explanations and examples for similar terms, confusions

   markva: can people look over and see if it's clear?

   <markva>
   [15]http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/Library_terminology_informally_ex
   plained#Vocabularies.2C_Element_sets.2C_Datasets

     [15] http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/Library_terminology_informally_explained#Vocabularies.2C_Element_sets.2C_Datasets

   emma: q about definitions, attributes or elements
   ... why use attributes rather than property to describe the
   metadata?

   markva: i thought we have agreed on term "element"

   <TomB> Mark: "A metadata element set defines classes of entities and
   attributes (elements) of entities."

   markva: property too RDF-centric

   emma: questioning the term "attribute"

   <kcoyle> i like attribute

   markva: using it as synonym - if confusing it can be deleted

   <TomB> +1 "attributes" introduces new possibilities for confusion

   emma: not relation oriented
   ... attributes are more like literals, then there are relationships
   - between two entities

   markva: either delete word "attribute" or add attributes and
   relations

   emma: add attributes or relations

   <Zakim> TomB, you wanted to suggest that people may think of XML
   attributes

   TomB: see some possibility of confusion with XML attributes, etc.

   <Marcia> 'attributes' are used in various library museum metadata
   sets/schemas

   <kcoyle> unfortunately, attribute is what is used in frbr

   <TomB> kcoyle, good point

   antoine: is everyone happy with this proposal for markva? any
   objection?

   <kcoyle> no objection

   __SILENCE__

   <TomB> can live with "attribute"...

   <GordonD> Keep the quote marks around attribute, etc. to warn of
   ambiguity between different communities.

   <TomB> +1 to Gordon's suggestion

   <scribe> ACTION: Mark to add these definitions to the wiki page
   [recorded in
   [16]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/12/16-lld-minu
   tes.html#action01] [DONE]

     [16] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/12/16-lld-minutes.html#action01

   <antoine> Karen's mail:
   [17]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2010Dec/0086.h
   tml

     [17] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2010Dec/0086.html

   "Karen's feedback
   [18]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2010Dec/0086.h
   tml"

     [18] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2010Dec/0086.html

   kcoyle: took various things mentioned in the use cases and put them
   in a list
   ... separated them out into proper categories
   ... gave some interesting examples
   ... VIAF - is that a dataset? or vocabulary?

   jeff_: i don't think VIAF is a vocabulary -- it's an ontology, but
   that's not it's purpose
   ... thing that makes uncomfortable with "data set" is that there's
   no bulk download
   ... geonames, dbpedia are available for download - they are datasets

   <jodi> to me, a data set is not necessarily available in bulk

   <antoine> +1

   <emma> +1 jodi

   <Asaf> +1 jodi

   markva: looking at VIAF example, and I think it's a vocabulary
   ... documented in confusions part in aforementioned section
   ... We can discuss it on the mailing list.
   ... viaf lists authorities - authorities intended to be used in
   metadata records as values of the elements in the records
   ... also has its own set of metadata elements to describe
   authorities
   ... but primarily intended to be used in other datasets

   <jeff_> I can believe VIAF is a value vocabulary in part

   <kcoyle> mark makes sense to me. i can see it either way, tho'

   markva: can see it either way, but would argue towards value
   vocabulary

   antoine: things could be both

   <Marcia> Authority files are value vocabularies. VIAF itself is a
   hub of them and provides more other things. If not consider it as an
   authority, it is a dataset.

   kcoyle: it's really a function of how you use it

   <TomB> MikaelN also made this point at
   [19]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-lld/2010Dec/0023.html

     [19] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-lld/2010Dec/0023.html

   TomB: the important thing here is to distinguish functionality

   <Zakim> emma, you wanted to discuss the definition of value vocab

   emma: back to the definition of value vocbulary, we need to be more
   explicit
   ... confusion around value term - literal? URI?
   ... value could be a code, URI, literal, etc.
   ... these value vocabularies are used in environments as a closed
   list

   <Marcia> always controlled (value voc.)

   emma: always pick from the data set -

   <scribe> ACTION: Mark and Emmanuelle to clean definition of value
   vocabulary and use of attribute [recorded in
   [20]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/01/06-lld-minu
   tes.html#action02]

USE CASES AND CASE STUDIES

   [21]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/UseCases - all use
   cases are linked here

     [21] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/UseCases

   <scribe> ACTION: Karen and Emma to curate archive cluster for end of
   December [recorded in
   [22]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minu
   tes.html#action02] [CONTINUES]

     [22] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minutes.html#action02

   emma: we are closed to finished
   ... if you're happy with wording, we can delete top of page
   ... just consider that we're done

   kcoyle: minor editing, maybe, but that's it

   <scribe> ACTION: Mark, Jodi, and Asaf to curate digital objects
   cluster for end of December [recorded in [recorded in
   [23]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/01/06-lld-minu
   tes.html#action04] [CONTINUES]

   markva: 1/3 away from cluster page

   antoine: do you think you'll be finished soon?

   markva: won't be here next week, so next 2 weeks?

   <Asaf> I will be putting some more time into it in the coming two
   weeks

   <TomB> wonders if the Cluster pages should be linked to
   [24]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/FinalReportOutline ?

     [24] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/FinalReportOutline

   <emma> +1 Tom

   <Asaf> TomB: our thoughts lead this way

   <Asaf> we were thinking of proceeding with a view to filling the
   outline.

   TomB: we could link cluster pages to final report outline

   <scribe> ACTION: TomB to link cluster pages to
   [25]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/FinalReportOutline
   [recorded in
   [26]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/01/06-lld-minu
   tes.html#action05]

     [25] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/FinalReportOutline

   <scribe> ACTION: Gordon and Martin to curate bibliographic data
   cluster for end of December [recorded in
   [27]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minu
   tes.html#action05] [CONTINUES]

     [27] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minutes.html#action05

   GordonD: still working on it - topic section still the main area to
   do. 1 or 2 weeks, max.

   <scribe> ACTION: Jeff and Alexander to curate authority data cluster
   for end of December [recorded in
   [28]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minu
   tes.html#action06] [CONTINUES]

     [28] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minutes.html#action06

   jeff_: still working on it - haven't talked about it, couple of
   weeks
   ... been using google docs to edit the content

   <jodi> sorry, skype has been buggy for me recently

   <scribe> ACTION: Antoine and Michael to curate vocabulary alignment
   cluster for end of December [recorded in
   [29]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minu
   tes.html#action07] [CONTINUES]

     [29] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minutes.html#action07

   antoine: quite late on this one, Marcia has joined us
   ... together can make progress, hope for 1 or 2 weeks

NEW CLUSTER(S)?

   -> See "Use case notes page" and "use case clustering" threads

   [30]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2010Dec/0064.h
   tml

     [30] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2010Dec/0064.html

   [31]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2010Dec/0071.h
   tml

     [31] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2010Dec/0071.html

   jodi: talked about having a cluster on collections or collection
   level description
   ... find books in a collection, access description, library hours,
   etc.
   ... not sure if it's about collection building?
   ... social cluster - uldis & jodi curating

   <uldis>
   [32]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Cluster_Social_Uses

     [32] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Cluster_Social_Uses

   jodi: social and emergent information information
   ... circulation data, lending materials to others

   <uldis> some ideas at:
   [33]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011Jan/0006.h
   tml

     [33] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011Jan/0006.html

   jodi: kindle (nook) lending

   <uldis> (and the thread starting at that email)

   jodi: lend ebooks to one another, how did they find each other? what
   are the circumstances?
   ... why "emergent" is relevant: whole realm of machine &
   computational uses, like relevance ranking
   ... it's not only ubiquitous, but needs more attention
   ... use cases are mainly focused on what people are already doing

   antoine: would you be happy with continuing discussion on mailing
   list?

   jodi: yes

   <scribe> ACTION: Uldis and Jodi to create social uses cluster
   [recorded in
   [34]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/12/16-lld-minu
   tes.html#action03] [CONTINUES]

     [34] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/12/16-lld-minutes.html#action03

   <GordonD> I will curate the collections cluster

   <jodi> Gordan++

   <Asaf> cheers for Gordon!

   <GordonD> Co-curators welcome!

   <jodi> There's still one use case that doesn't have a cluster. Has
   someone adopted this?
   [35]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Use_Case_NLL_Digitized
   _Map_Archive

     [35] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Use_Case_NLL_Digitized_Map_Archive

   <jodi> I think maybe it's archives/heterogeneous material but maybe
   there's another

   <scribe> ACTION: GordonD to curate collection cluster [recorded in
   [36]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/01/06-lld-minu
   tes.html#action11]

   <GordonD> I assume I will have that support!

   <emma> for me, it's rather digital objects

   <uldis> perhaps it is relevant to both?

   <emma> I'll look at it again.

   <markva> is there an aspect of groups in it? then it belongs in DO

   <kcoyle> ok

   <markva> ok

   <Asaf> yes, I think it's in DO.

   <scribe> ACTION: Curators of archives and digital objects clusters
   to take
   [37]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Use_Case_NLL_Digitized
   _Map_Archive [recorded in
   [38]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/01/06-lld-minu
   tes.html#action12]

     [37] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Use_Case_NLL_Digitized_Map_Archive

   <scribe> Monica and JISC colleagues to introduce and discuss JISC
   work on next call [recorded in
   [39]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/11/25-lld-minu
   tes.html#action02]

     [39] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/11/25-lld-minutes.html#action02

   antoine: would we like owen to participate in future call?

   <kcoyle> i had a comment/question on clusters/final document

   antoine: or are we happy with explanation?

   <Asaf> I'd love to hear more on JISC

   <Asaf> ...but no one else would?

   <TomB> +1

   <TomB> ok

   <Asaf> I guess I can follow up offline, though.

   <Asaf> I don't think it makes sense to use up call time just for me.

   <GordonD> +1 for existing explanation

   <antoine> +1

   <kcoyle> happy enough

   <emma> I'm happy with
   [40]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-lld/2010Nov/0119.html

     [40] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-lld/2010Nov/0119.html

   <AnetteS> +1

   <Asaf> no, it's fine.

   <TomB> fine with me

   <antoine> ACTION: Monica and JISC colleagues to introduce and
   discuss JISC work on next call [recorded in
   [41]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/11/25-lld-minu
   tes.html#action02] [DONE]

     [41] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/11/25-lld-minutes.html#action02

   antoine: perhaps come back to it later rather than close it forever

   <Zakim> kcoyle, you wanted to discuss cases of 'missing technology'

TOPICS

   [42]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/TopicsDiscussed

     [42] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/TopicsDiscussed

   <kcoyle>
   [43]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-lld/2010Dec/0101.html

     [43] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-lld/2010Dec/0101.html

   <jodi> this is a key question: what is stopping people

   kcoyle: what are the missing technologies that preventing people
   from realizing their use cases
   ... we haven't identified what is needed to move forward?

   <emma> we should add a section in use case cluster curation template

   <TomB> Karen:

   <TomB> [[

   <TomB> We don't seem to have identified in our use cases the
   problems that

   <Marcia> do you mean 'types of' technologies?

   <TomB> people are facing; what is holding them back; what is missing
   from the

   <TomB> available technology that would make LLD implementable. It
   seems that

   <TomB> this would be an important section in the report since it is
   from

   <TomB> these barriers that projects could be incubated.

   <TomB> ]]

   <markva> do you have an example of barrier?

   kcoyle: what is missing to help you move forward with your use case?

   antoine: topics are mostly technology topics, when we come back, we
   can say how they were handled in various use cases

   kcoyle: there are probably examples of vocabs needed that don't
   exist yet
   ... there isn't software that helps make relationships in a db
   environment
   ... people making datasets available, but no library specific
   applications
   ... gap analysis
   ... we didn't ask people doing the use cases to do the gap analysis

   <markva> start separate wiki page for that?

   antoine: there was a section of the use case template for that - not
   many people used it

   emma: there is a section for problems and limitations - not always
   relevant
   ... out of all the use cases, one of them might have a limitation
   that's general to many

   <jodi> I think this is a good idea: looking at all the problems +
   limitations out of what's already in the use cases

   <GordonD> +1 Emma's suggestion to curate problems/limitations from
   use cases and list discussions

   emma: education/training, architecture
   ... we do have some material in the use cases

   kcoyle: since i'm the one bothered, i should go through and make a
   list

   <markva> +1 !

   antoine: could you do it for your own cluster?

   kcoyle: let me see if our cluster reveals problems

   <GordonD> +1

   <scribe> ACTION: kcoyle to see if cluster reveals problems or
   limitations [recorded in
   [44]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/01/06-lld-minu
   tes.html#action15]

   <scribe> ACTION: GordonD and Antoine to study use cases that relate
   to vocabulary merging use case [recorded in
   [45]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/24-lld-minu
   tes.html#action01] [DROPPED]

     [45] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/24-lld-minutes.html#action01

   <GordonD> +1

   <scribe> ACTION: Alex, Jeff, Martin, MichaelP elaborate on general
   purpose IT architecture for dealing with linked data with caching
   feature [recorded in
   [46]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/24-lld-minu
   tes.html#action04] [CONTINUES]

     [46] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/24-lld-minutes.html#action04

   <Asaf> I think at least a link to some sketch on this should make it
   into the report.

   <scribe> ACTION: Jeff to write one or two paragraphs on VIAF design
   discussions [recorded in
   [47]http://www.w3.org/2010/11/18-lld-minutes.html#action06]
   [CONTINUES]

     [47] http://www.w3.org/2010/11/18-lld-minutes.html#action06

   antoine: any other business?

   __SILENCE__

   <Asaf> Cheers.

   <Marcia> bye

   <AnetteS> bye!

   <Marcia> thanks, Ray

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: Curators of archives and digital objects clusters to
   take
   [48]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Use_Case_NLL_Digitized
   _Map_Archive [recorded in
   [49]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/01/06-lld-minu
   tes.html#action12]
   [NEW] ACTION: kcoyle to see if cluster reveals problems or
   limitations [recorded in
   [50]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/01/06-lld-minu
   tes.html#action15]
   [NEW] ACTION: Mark and Emmanuelle to clean definition of value
   vocabulary and use of attribute [recorded in
   [51]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/01/06-lld-minu
   tes.html#action02]
   [NEW] ACTION: GordonD to curate collection cluster [recorded in
   [52]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/01/06-lld-minu
   tes.html#action11]
   [NEW] ACTION: TomB to link cluster pages to
   [53]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/FinalReportOutline
   [recorded in
   [54]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/01/06-lld-minu
   tes.html#action05]

     [48] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Use_Case_NLL_Digitized_Map_Archive
     [53] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/FinalReportOutline

   [PENDING] ACTION: Antoine and Michael to curate vocabulary alignment
   cluster for end of December [recorded in
   [55]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minu
   tes.html#action07]
     [PENDING] ACTION: Jeff to write one or two paragraphs on VIAF
   design discussions [recorded in
   [56]http://www.w3.org/2010/11/18-lld-minutes.html#action06]
   [PENDING] ACTION: Uldis and Jodi to create social uses cluster
   [recorded in
   [57]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/12/16-lld-minu
   tes.html#action03]
   [PENDING] ACTION: Mark, Jodi, and Asaf to curate digital objects
   cluster for end of December [recorded in [recorded in
   [58]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minu
   tes.html#action04]
   [PENDING] ACTION: Gordon and Martin to curate bibliographic data
   cluster for end of December [recorded in
   [59]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minu
   tes.html#action05]
   [PENDING] ACTION: Alex, Jeff, Martin, MichaelP elaborate on general
   purpose IT architecture for dealing with linked data with caching
   feature [recorded in
   [60]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/24-lld-minu
   tes.html#action04]
   [PENDING] ACTION: Jeff and Alexander to curate authority data
   cluster for end of December [recorded in
   [61]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minu
   tes.html#action06]
   [PENDING] ACTION: Karen and Emma to curate archive cluster for end
   of December [recorded in
   [62]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minu
   tes.html#action02]
   [DONE] ACTION: Mark to add these definitions to the wiki page
   [recorded in
   [63]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/12/16-lld-minu
   tes.html#action01]
   [DONE] ACTION: Monica and JISC colleagues to introduce and discuss
   JISC work on next call [recorded in
   [64]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/11/25-lld-minu
   tes.html#action02]
   [DROPPED] ACTION: GordonD and Antoine to study use cases that relate
   to vocabulary merging use case [recorded in
   [65]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/24-lld-minu
   tes.html#action01]
   [End of minutes]
     _________________________________________________________

     [55] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minutes.html#action07
     [56] http://www.w3.org/2010/11/18-lld-minutes.html#action06
     [57] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/12/16-lld-minutes.html#action03
     [59] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minutes.html#action05
     [60] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/24-lld-minutes.html#action04
     [61] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minutes.html#action06
     [62] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minutes.html#action02
     [63] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/12/16-lld-minutes.html#action01
     [64] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/11/25-lld-minutes.html#action02
     [65] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/24-lld-minutes.html#action01


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     [67] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/
Received on Friday, 7 January 2011 03:56:38 GMT

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