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Minutes of 2011-02-24 LLD meeting

From: Svensson, Lars <L.Svensson@dnb.de>
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 08:55:30 +0100
Message-ID: <6DA97EFF2763174B8BDC409CA19729840CE625B4@dbf-ex.AD.DDB.DE>
To: <public-xg-lld@w3.org>
Dear all,

The minutes of our call yesterday are at
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/02/24-lld-minutes.html

There is a text version below.

Thanks to everyone who assisted me during my first telecon scribe!
(Until now, I only scribed at the F2F in Pittsburgh...).

All the best,

Lars

============

   [1]W3C

      [1] http://www.w3.org/

                                LLD XG

24 Feb 2011

   [2]Agenda

      [2]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011Feb/0078.html

   See also: [3]IRC log

      [3] http://www.w3.org/2011/02/24-lld-irc

Attendees

   Present
          antoine, emma, TomB, kefo, marcia, PMurray, kcoyle, GordonD,
          jeff_, jneubert, LarsG, edsu

   Regrets
          Ray, Monica, Ross, Asaf, Kai, Uldis, Felix, Jodi

   Chair
          Antoine

   Scribe
          Lars

Contents

     * [4]Topics
         1. [5]minutes
         2. [6]Problems & limitations
         3. [7]Final report draft
     * [8]Summary of Action Items
     _________________________________________________________

   <antoine> Previous: 2011-02-14
   [9]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/02/17-lld-minut
   es.html

      [9]
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/02/17-lld-minutes.html

   <TomB> Chair: Antoine

   <antoine> Scribe: Lars

   <antoine> Scribenick: LarsG

minutes

   <scribe> RESOLVED: accept minutes
   [10]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/02/17-lld-minu
   tes.html

     [10]
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/02/17-lld-minutes.html

   minutes accepted

   TomB: Eight respondents for telco in Asia pacific
   ... call next week

   kefo: is signed up for scribe duty, but wants to change, if it's in
   the middle of the night.

   <kcoyle> we should take some minutes, though, for the others --
   maybe not formal

   tomB: explains it's not a replacement for the regular call but
   another call

   <scribe> ACTION: everyone (on the call and off) to send email
   message in the next week re brainstorming on important issues
   [recorded in
   [11]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/02/17-lld-minu
   tes.html#action08] [CONTINUES]

     [11]
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/02/17-lld-minutes.html
#action08

   Antoine: action lead by Karen, created wiki-page

   <edsu>
   [12]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_issues_page

     [12] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_issues_page

   kcoyle: collected all emails into the wiki page

Problems & limitations

   kcoyle: took care of all issues and limitations from the use cases
   ... and reorganised them as bullet points which we need to turn into
   something better
   ... tried to pull out sensible issues from them
   ... we need this group or a subgroup to pull out the key issues
   ... so that the group can discuss

   antoine: are you optimistic? Karen has done great work

   kcoyle: pull out many issues, what is the case for LLD?

   <GordonD> Clarify that these are issues which are problematic and
   limiting ...

   <marcia>
   [13]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_issues_page#From
   _the_Use_Cases_.28RAW.29

     [13]
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_issues_page#From_the_Use
_Cases_.28RAW.29

   kcoyle: this is where case studies come in and need to be covered by
   the report
   ... we can do some calls and talk about it

   antoine: who volunteers to help Karen?

   <TomB> TomB volunteers to help

   <GordonD> We also need to incorporate stuff from other components of
   the Problems and limitations section ...

   <pmurray> PMurray volunteers to help

   kcoyle: will put a call out on the list
   ... what do you mean by other stuff?

   <GordonD> There's the next item on this week's agenda ...

   <GordonD> e.g. the generic issues raised in the Library standards
   and linked data section

   kcoyle: topics and limitations are included

   <emma> I think GordonD thinks about his Library standards issues
   page

   kcoyle: if you're aware of the issues, the group should add those
   in.

   <emma>
   [14]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Library_standards_and_
   linked_data

     [14]
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Library_standards_and_linked_d
ata

   antoine: Gordon probably refers to wiki pages

   <GordonD> I will volunteer to help

   kcoyle: will pull those in

   antoine: could be interesting

   <GordonD> But - I am out of action for all of next week ...

   <TomB> +1 to call before next meeting

   kcoyle: the group seems big enough, let's do a call between now and
   next meeting

   <GordonD> So I'll contribute via email ...

   antoine: we have the pages created by GordonD on library standards
   and lnked data
   ... now might be the right time to discuss

   GordonD: it's probably better to have the small group pull it into
   Karen's page

   <TomB> I propose March 10

   GordonD: we should schedule on which telecon we do it

   <GordonD> +1 March 10

   antoine: in two weeks time is good, the we can get a clearer picture

   <marcia> Jodi sent an email today: "most of the issues we have are
   not specific to Library Linked Data, but rather are important for
   Linked Data in general."

   kcoyle: sounds good

   <GordonD> It's a good deadline!

   <kcoyle> marcia, there is a section for SW issues -- 1.1.1.8 -- may
   need to be renamed/changed, but that is its purpose

   <antoine> ACTION: As a future topic for March 10, discuss the open
   questions in the second half of
   [15]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Library_standards_and_
   linked_data [recorded in
   [16]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/01/27-lld-minu
   tes.html#action03]

     [15]
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Library_standards_and_linked_d
ata
     [16]
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/01/27-lld-minutes.html
#action03

   Antoine: Problem of topic page
   ... has been main focus point so far, Karen's page can replace that

   kcoyle: not a replacement, but a kind of working area
   ... a place to clarify our thoughts

   <emma> [17]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/TopicsDiscussed

     [17] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/TopicsDiscussed

   <TomB> +1 working area - we will feel freer if we don't worry too
   much about how it fits in

   <GordonD> Topics are also referenced by use cases and clusters ...

   kcoyle: this page is a kind of scribble page, won't replace the
   report
   ... it's too messy to be inside the report

   antoine: kind of sandbox to be replaced

   kcoyle: content to be extracted into report

   <Zakim> emma, you wanted to suggest using TopicsDiscussed as a
   checklist

   antoine: media wiki categories, idea was to have each issue
   represented as its own category. Has anyoune used that?

   emma: we should use topics discussed as a checklist, to make sure we
   haven't forgotten anything

   <kcoyle> +1

   emma: it was useful to discuss them at F2F but not for the report.
   Karen's work is better

   antoine: each topic has its own page

   emma: idea was to write a short paragraph on each topic and that
   could be transcluded into the other page
   ... we could make links between topics and use cases
   ... if we still want to write about each topic, the issues pages is
   more organized

   antoine: the agenda will keep the topics discussed page

   emma: all topics don't have categories, so that won't be complete

   antoine: has anyone comments on topics and limitations?

   <kcoyle> or send in email

   antoine: move on

Final report draft

   [18]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Library_standards_and_
   linked_data

     [18]
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Library_standards_and_linked_d
ata

   [19]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/DraftReport

     [19] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/DraftReport

   antoine: six items

    1. Executive Summary
    2. Benefits of LD for libraries
    3. Use cases and requirements (represented via clusters, plus an
       annotated list of use cases, plus requirement list?)
    4. Available data (vocabularies, datasets)
    5. Problems and limitations
    6. Recommendations (Vocabularies, Identifiers, Data modeling,
       Architecture, Links, General education and outreach, Curricula)

   antoine: for each item there are several choices:
   ... only summary of the topic
   ... or keep things at the Wiki
   ... or make an appendix
   ... we must agree on how to proceed
   ... first item: Exec summary

   <kcoyle> +1

   <emma> +1

   scribe: fully fledged section

   <kefo> +1

   <kcoyle> and conclusions

   TomB: write exec summary as a guide on how to read the document,
   high level view of issues
   ... if we write it now we'll have to rewrite it later

   <emma> Exec summary shouldn't be only about issues

   <kcoyle> +1

   <marcia> Executive Summary should also be made available as separate
   unit for print and distribute.

   emma: suggest we merge this section with use cases

   <kcoyle> ++1

   emma: to show benefit of LLD

   <marcia> Emma+

   <GordonD> +1 to use use cases as illustrations of the benefits

   antoine: the benefits of LLD should be the place where UCs are
   introduced to the report and perhaps the only place where they're
   mentioned

   <edsu> emma++

   emma: 50 UCs in the report are too many, we should focus more on
   benefits, less on limitations, this comes from the clusters

   <kcoyle> use cases are proof that there are hoped-for benefits

   emma: methodology, how to extract benefits from the UCs

   <GordonD> Use cases are a hostage to fortune - first thing a reader
   will do is see if there is a familiar use case, and if there isn't
   ...

   antoine: many of the UCs show problems at hand in the scenarios

   emma: should we review clusters to get benefits from there

   <kcoyle> yes, extract benefits -- see what we get -- add in others
   if needed

   emma: maybe we should create a subgroup to extract benefits

   antoine: agrees. Volunteers?

   <GordonD> +1 use cases digested into clusters, clusters digested
   into final report

   antoine: can emma set up a WG for all volunteers

   <kcoyle> +1

   <marcia> +1

   <scribe> ACTION: emma and ed to start curating a section on benefits
   of LLD for libraries [recorded in
   [20]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/02/24-lld-minu
   tes.html#action06]

   antoine: we still have possibility to make UCs a full part of the
   report

   <kcoyle> as an appendix?

   antoine: as a side deliverable

   <emma> +1 for a separate deliverable

   edsu: support that idea, much work has been put into the UCs
   ... we can extract for the final report, but should present the UCs
   as a separate deliverable

   <TomB> +1 for Use Case deliverable

   kcoyle: agree, it gives credit and makes visible that people work in
   this area, that there are real project and gives credit to those
   people

   <antoine> +1

   antoine: ack
   ... we need volunteers to take care of that deliverable

   emma: go back to initial proposal for clusters: read carefully what
   others have written and put it into a report

   <kcoyle> +1

   <Zakim> edsu, you wanted to suggest we identify editors for the use
   case document deliverable, rather than lots of reviewers

   <marcia> +1 Emma and Ed

   <kcoyle> so we need a use case committee/editors

   edsu: still has trouble with too many people edit UCs and
   deliverables. better to have just few editors, instead of doing too
   much reviewing now

   <GordonD> It's the clusters that need reviewed by neutral editors

   <emma> @ed +1, just wanted to emphasize that editors of this
   deliverable souldn't be the authors of the clusters but other people

   antoine: to have a limited number of editors might be an option

   <Zakim> TomB, you wanted to point out that what Ed is proposing is
   what I proposed in point 1 of
   [21]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011Feb/0034.h
   tml

     [21]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011Feb/0034.html

   edsu: someone should have it as an action

   TomB: proposes that we have someone to take ownership of UC
   document, look at case studies and UCs and make a proposal what the
   section should look like

   <kcoyle> noting that jodi is not on this call (right?) and she did
   much of the use case work

   <TomB> jodi is not on the call

   <kcoyle> +1 and also on the list

   antoine: volunteers now or on the list or both?

   <GordonD> But owner of uc document should NOT be someone who has
   contributed to use cases, clusters ...

   <emma> +1 Gordon, we need new perspectives

   <GordonD> We need to show objectivity, and a check/balance review is
   a good method

   antoine: this is what TomB and edsu suggest

   <kcoyle> did anyone not contribute or review?

   <edsu> :-)

   <edsu> hehehe

   <edsu> +1 for chairs to figure it out :-)

   <kcoyle> ed, i already have tomB on my committee -- no one else can
   have him!

   <emma> +1

   <TomB> +1 for chairs to pick victims :-)

   <edsu> kcoyle: wait, what committee is that again?

   <scribe> ACTION: emma, TomB, and antoine to send a call for finding
   an owner of the UC deliverable [recorded in
   [22]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/02/24-lld-minu
   tes.html#action07]

   <kcoyle> ed, the issues group

   <edsu> kcoyle: oh yeah :-D

   <GordonD> Available data is too volatile - there's a new
   announcement every week

   <GordonD> So suggest a summary#

   antoine: available data, is this a separate section in the report,
   or should we just have summary?

   GordonD: we hear news about new library data every week, so it's
   better to summarize. We should concentrate on identifying gaps

   edsu: disagrees. +1 to identify gaps, and there is an oppurtunity
   for people interested to become pointers to work done already
   ... it might be hard, but we need to talk about what there is now

   <marcia> Agree with Ed. List vocabularies and related use cases, not
   to give opinions.

   <Zakim> TomB, you wanted to point out that what Ed is proposing is
   what I proposed in point 3 of
   [23]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011Feb/0034.h
   tml

     [23]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011Feb/0034.html

   kcoyle: agrees with edsu, perhaps we should pick representative
   samples (national libraries, individual contributions) but not as a
   definiive list

   <marcia> +1 to start from use cases

   <edsu> TomB: ok, glad you proposed it -- so i guess that means you
   support the idea? :-)

   <kcoyle> +1 for putting list related to use cases in use case
   document -- as related to use cases

   <GordonD> Representative samples is fine with me

   <antoine> +1

   TomB: somebody should make a proposal to the group, somebody to take
   ownership of what to happen with vocabularies section

   <GordonD> Relation to CKAN on the vocabularies?

   antoine: can somebody take that action?

   <kcoyle> +1

   <edsu> antoine++

   antoine: volunteers himself

   <edsu> i would offer to volunteer but i don't want to over-commit

   <jeff_> jeff volunteers

   <TomB> jeff++

   <kcoyle> jeff++

   <edsu> i reckon rsinger would be good at that stuff too

   <scribe> ACTION: Antoine and jeff_ to make a proposal to the group
   about vocabularies and datasets [recorded in
   [24]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/02/24-lld-minu
   tes.html#action08]

   <TomB> The chairs should let EdSu pick victims :-)

   antoine: ross might be a good candidate, too

   <jeff_> +1

   antoine: sees action as making the proposal, but maybe not the
   actual work
   ... we've discussed problems and limitations already

   <Zakim> emma, you wanted to suggest that maybe some vocs need
   highlighting

   kcoyle: can we decide now which topics to discuss next week?

   antoine: for many topics we don't have owners

   <TomB> Today's telecon is #30 - we have a maximum of 13 remaining

   <kcoyle> yes, tomB that's the issue

   kcoyle: next week we should set ourselves to make deadlines

   <emma> Next week : give some milestones for the report

   ADJOURNED

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: Antoine and jeff_ to make a proposal to the group
   about vocabularies and datasets [recorded in
   [25]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/02/24-lld-minu
   tes.html#action08]
   [NEW] ACTION: As a future topic for March 10, discuss the open
   questions in the second half of
   [26]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Library_standards_and_
   linked_data [recorded in
   [27]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/01/27-lld-minu
   tes.html#action03]
   [NEW] ACTION: emma and ed to start curating a section on benefits of
   LLD for libraries [recorded in
   [28]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/02/24-lld-minu
   tes.html#action06]
   [NEW] ACTION: emma, TomB, and antoine to send a call for finding an
   owner of the UC deliverable [recorded in
   [29]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/02/24-lld-minu
   tes.html#action07]

     [26]
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Library_standards_and_linked_d
ata
     [27]
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/01/27-lld-minutes.html
#action03

   [PENDING] ACTION: everyone (on the call and off) to send email
   message in the next week re brainstorming on important issues
   [recorded in
   [30]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/02/17-lld-minu
   tes.html#action08]

     [30]
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/02/17-lld-minutes.html
#action08

   [DROPPED] ACTION: As a future topic for a conference call, discuss
   the open questions in the second half of
   [31]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Library_standards_and_
   linked_data [recorded in
   [32]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/01/27-lld-minu
   tes.html#action03]

     [31]
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Library_standards_and_linked_d
ata
     [32]
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/01/27-lld-minutes.html
#action03

   [End of minutes]
     _________________________________________________________


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  **** Please note my new internet- and email-address. ****

--
Dr. Lars G. Svensson
Deutsche Nationalbibliothek / Informationstechnik http://www.dnb.de/
l.svensson@dnb.de
Received on Friday, 25 February 2011 07:56:04 GMT

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