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Minutes -- today's call (2010-02-10)

From: Jodi Schneider <jodi.schneider@deri.org>
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 22:50:54 +0000
Message-Id: <3B91B366-C524-4074-8759-DB3F2FCA3FA1@deri.org>
To: public-xg-lld <public-xg-lld@w3.org>
Here are the minutes:
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/02/10-lld-minutes.html
Also in text below.

Any corrections needed?

-Jodi

   [1]W3C

      [1] http://www.w3.org/

                                LLD XG

10 Feb 2011

   [2]Agenda

      [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011Feb/0015.html

   See also: [3]IRC log

      [3] http://www.w3.org/2011/02/10-lld-irc

Attendees

   Present
          antoine, TomB, emma, kefo, jeff_, uldis, kcoyle, GordonD,
          AlexanderH, marcia, rsinger, michaelp, Jodi, edsu, Asaf,
          mduke, jneubert, rayd, ww

   Regrets
          Peter, Lars

   Chair
          Emma, Antoine

   Scribe
          jodi

Contents

     * [4]Topics
         1. [5]Admin
         2. [6]Final Report Draft
         3. [7]Authority data cluster
         4. [8]Vocabulary alignment cluster
         5. [9]Archives cluster
         6. [10]Citations cluster
         7. [11]Digital Objects Cluster
         8. [12]Collections Cluster
         9. [13]Social Uses Cluster
        10. [14]Possible new cluster on web services?
        11. [15]All Other Business
     * [16]Summary of Action Items
     _________________________________________________________

   <uldis> mduke: Bristol and Nice did not work for me either, some
   telcos ago. 'm calling +1 (US) number via skype

Admin

   <emma> Previous: 2011-02-03
   [17]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/02/03-lld-minu
   tes.html

     [17] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/02/03-lld-minutes.html

   <TomB> +1 accept minutes

   Minutes accepted.

   TomB: We're proposing another teleconference to be scheduled, aimed
   at work hours in Asia-Pacific time zones.

   TomB: Our normal telcon slot is quite late for some incubator group
   members. It's after 10 PM for 5 members, and for some it's even
   after midnight. So we have proposed a special teleconference where
   people in Asia-Pacific timezones (4 in Japan, 1 in Malaysia) would
   have a chance to participate and present.

   TomB: I hope other people, especially from US West Coast and Europe
   could join to have larger representation from the group for this
   telecon.

   Emma: Let's talk about the LOD-LAM Summit that is planned for San
   Francisco for June: [18]http://lod-lam.net/

     [18] http://lod-lam.net/

   Emma: People can apply to attend this summit [by February 28]. Who
   plans to apply?

   <jodi> i do

   <kcoyle> i applied

   <Asaf> I'll be in SF, so would most likely like to attend.

   Emma: Maybe we can invite organizers to one of our telcons in
   February, to see what they would expect from us.

   <antoine> +1 for inviting Jon Voss for 10 min once

   <uldis> +1

   <kcoyle> what would be the purpose?

   Emma: purpose would be to have more explanation of the event and
   what they're expecting

   Karen: The way the event is being described, it will be an open
   space style barcamp. So the content will be determined on the first
   day, according to who shows up.

   <jodi> sorry be right back

   <jodi> skype--

   <antoine> Karen: we could talk about gap analysis

   scribe: some direction in any event

   <kcoyle> oops. hit wrong button. will call back in

   <Asaf> We are experiencing a Bad Skype Day.

   <rsinger> +1

   TomB: I'm happy to invite Jon Voss for next week's call.

   <uldis> [19]http://lod-lam.net/summit/about/

     [19] http://lod-lam.net/summit/about/

   TomB: The summit talks about deriving requirements (though I don't
   have the full description in front of me) and that's what we've been
   trying to do.

   <kcoyle> +1

   TomB: The purpose would be to find out from Jon what he hopes to
   achieve through the summit, and how that fits in with what we've
   been doing.

   <marcia> From the Website:
   * Identify the tools and techniques for publishing and working with
   Linked Open Data.
   * Draft precedents and policy for licensing and copyright
   considerations regarding the publishing of library, archive, and
   museum metadata.
   * Publish definitions and promote use cases that will give LAM staff
   the tools they need to advocate for Linked Open Data in their
   institutions.

   <scribe> ACTION: Tom B to invite Jon Voss for a future telcon, to
   present [20]http://lod-lam.net/summit/ recorded in
   [21]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/02/10-lld-minu
   tes.html#action01]

     [20] http://lod-lam.net/summit/

   <jodi> marcia++

Final Report Draft

   Draft Report is at:
   [22]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/DraftReport

     [22] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/DraftReport

   Emma: We're starting by putting everything in one big draft, to see
   where we stand.

   <ww> (hard to hear emma)

   Emma: Right now we need to focus on finishing the cluster, so that
   we can move on to other things. We should be closing out clusters
   when they are good enough. Let the reviewers proofread what has been
   done, and input new ideas.

   :)

   Emma: Can we look at every cluster action, to see if we can close
   the action?

   <GordonD> Bibliographic data cluster is in "good enough" state - can
   close action.

   Emma: If we can't close it, replace the generic action with a more
   specific one.

   <GordonD> Yes

   <GordonD> I mean, it's finished

   <jeff_> Can authority data have one more week?

   <scribe> ACTION: Gordon and Martin to curate bibliographic data
   cluster for end of December [recorded in
   [23]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minu
   tes.html#action05] [DONE]

     [23] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minutes.html#action05

   <Zakim> edsu, you wanted to ask if we will have an opportunity to
   suggest edits later

   Ed: When the pieces are assembled into the final document, we'll be
   able to raise questions, and suggest edits, right?

   <kcoyle> i assume we'll need to copy edit and make them look
   somewhat alike

   <Zakim> TomB, you wanted to answer ed

   [Antoine takes over chairing, and acknowledges Tom.]

   TomB: I think we need to transition to a formal reviewing stage.
   ... By formal review, I mean we assign a reader or two, read through
   a section, post comments to the list 2-3 days before a call, and
   then, during the call, discuss any issues.
   ... That will get as many eyes as possible looking at each section,
   from various points of view, not just the authors' point of view.
   ... At the same time, we'll smooth out stylistic differences.

   Ed: If I get assigned to work on "bibliographic data" -- or choose
   to -- ...
   ... My hope is that we'll look at the document as a whole, rather
   than just focusing on one piece.
   ... I like the sound of moving into a new phase of reviewing, but I
   hope for us to be reading the whole document.

   TomB: Maybe we could start by reviewing SECTIONS of the document.
   ... Reviewing the document as a whole might be too overwhelming --
   generating too many comments at once for us to focus.

   antoine: Maybe we need two levels of editing?

   <GordonD> +1 for formal review and subsequent, and cosmetic, editing

   antoine: One to focus on the content, the second to focus on the
   editorial level, rather than the content of each section.

   <GordonD> Cosmetic editing should be done by one or two people only
   (+1 Antoine)

   <TomB> +1 we need stylistic reviews too

   <edsu> lol

   TomB: We need stylistic review.

   <rsinger> bah, writing!

   <rsinger> wont the computers do that for us?

   Karen: Most of the document hasn't been written yet. We need to talk
   about how that's going to happen.

   <GordonD> To write the final report, we must stop writing the use
   cases, etc.

   Karen: Will people volunteer to write what they want and see what
   comes of that?

   Ed: It's from assembling what we've written.

   <TomB> +1 Karen - there are indeed gaps, some big ones!

   Karen: Right now it looks like a list of lists. But it needs to be a
   document with conclusions.

   <GordonD> Suggest we need a game plan for the review - deadlines for
   future discussions leading into content, etc.

   <edsu> kcoyle++

   TomB: Our rationale for assembling it in one document is to see
   what's there and what's missing.

   <Asaf> kcoyle++

   Karen: It's not only the writing: We have to draw conclusions. But I
   don't feel that we *have* drawn conclusions yet. That's another
   step.

   Drawing conclusions might happen by writing and then discussing...
   or we might have a session where we discuss what we've learned.

   <edsu> the sooner we get the doc started the better

   <edsu> i guess

   Antoine: Gordon suggests we should create a planning.

   Tom: If I could suggest, all of the cluster authors should have an
   action to copy their text over into the draft report...
   ... We should move content into one document (replacing
   placeholders)

   <antoine> -1!

   Tom: Rather than using transclusion, maybe it would be better to
   copy things over.

   <TomB> antoine, did you mean "-1" ?

   <Zakim> jodi, you wanted to talk about the whole-document content
   aspect

   Antoine:> I'm afraid of having to edit the large document on the
   wiki...
   ... Transclusion would be more flexible

   Jodi: Reading the whole report, as soon as possible, will help us
   figure out what are the gaps and what we already know.

   Jodi: Editing the whole document is not just for style. It's also
   for figuring out in the content, what we have and haven't addressed
   yet.

   Jodi: ... I like the idea of asking questions on the list and then
   discussing on telecons

   <Asaf> Jodi is a WikiNinja! :)

   <emma> +1 for transclusion, lowers the risk of versionning

   <antoine> +1

   <scribe> ACTION: Jodi to replace placeholders in
   [24]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/DraftReport with
   transclusion code [recorded in
   [25]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/02/10-lld-minu
   tes.html#action04]

     [24] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/DraftReport

   Antoine: Not everything will be ready by next week. Should we first
   focus on assembling the clusters and sections which are in a
   readable state?

   <edsu> readable & reasonable would be nice :-)

   <emma> clusters need review before

   <GordonD> Suggest transcluding everything - will help to prioritise
   work!

   <GordonD> We need to shift focus to final document

   <TomB> Suggesting transcluding everything unless the cluster authors
   protest

   <jodi>I kind of agree with you, Gordon. Also for simplicity.

   <kcoyle> doesn't translcuison mean the report is never finished?

   Ed: I like the idea of having a readable and reasonable document to
   look at. I'm indifferent about transclusion.
   ... The cluster pages are kind of like notes. But now we have the
   task of assembling this report.

   <GordonD> I mean transcluding everything that is to be included in
   the final report ...

   Ed: We need conclusions, introductions, .... And whoever is editing
   this document will need to decide what to take out of each document.

   <TomB> +1 agree with Ed - we will need to start doing some
   significant editing on those sections

   Ed: For me, the mechanical process of transclusion is not going to
   help significantly.

   <rsinger> well, but can't the transcluded full thing be copy and
   pasted into a "final" document to edit?

   <Zakim> emma, you wanted to suggest that a lot of content is
   actually present in UC clusters

   <jodi>rsinger++

   <TomB> +1 can live with transcluding everything

   <rsinger> but the transcluded pieces would be easier to maintain
   until we get to that point

   <rsinger> spellcheck sure hates "transclusion"

   Emma: We have lots of content in the use case clusters, but this
   content is not only the use case section. It will go into the
   requirements section, the problems and limitations section, ...

   <michaelp> +1 re Ed's suggestion. But the UC cluster pages would
   have to be frozen before we can move on.

   Emma: I agree with Ed: if we use transclusion, it doesn't make a lot
   of difference. We can still edit them in a separate page.

   <rsinger> plus it will be a lot easier to have talk pages about the
   individual sections, right?

   Emma: I'm wondering what's going to happen with the problems and
   limitations section [of the use cases]. We also have a problems and
   limitations section of the full report.

   <GordonD> We agreed to have a telecon session on the general
   problems raised in Library standards and linked data; we can also
   include extracted Problems and limitations from clusters ...

   Antoine: We can move that content to the problems and limitations
   section.

   <Zakim> TomB, you wanted to suggest that the chairs assign reviewers

   Antoine: We've discussed this for a while and only have 20 minutes
   left. I think we'll keep the action on Jodi to transclude. From
   that, we will figure out, in the next weeks, what we need to edit.

   TomB: The chairs have been discussing: How do we get reviewers.
   Using telcon time would not be efficient -- it would take a lot of
   our time.

   <Asaf> +1

   <GordonD> +1

   <edsu> and cherry pick who reviews it :-(

   TomB: I'm inclined to have the chairs actively recruit reviewers
   without using telcon time by sending notes to people.

   <Jodi> +1

   Ed: It doesn't seem very open for me for the chairs to pick who you
   want to review it.

   <emma> we could also do it by asking people to volunteer on a wiki
   page - more open ?

   TomB: It's a little like a conference committee -- assignments being
   sent out.

   <Asaf> Compromise: do it on the list.

   Antoine: There's also a suggestion from Emma that we could do this
   on a wiki page.

   <GordonD> Ask for volunteers, with deadline, then assign gaps

   Ed: What else would we discuss on the call? I don't understand.

   Antoine: The content.

   <uldis> +1 re wiki page (to record who is [volunteering] to review
   what).

   Antoine: Also want an opportunity to get other people, who aren't on
   the call. It can be difficult to catch up once someone has
   volunteered.

   +1 to have a wiki page recording who is reviewing, regardless of how
   we are deciding

   <Asaf> Isn't the list our most inclusive space?

   <emma> Let's send a call on the list + have a wiki page to record
   the result

   <Asaf> emma++

   <rsinger> i agree with asaf

   Ed: I don't like the idea of having the three chairs deciding this.

   <uldis> volunteering for reviewing can take place on multiple
   mediums -- telco, list, ...

   <ww> edsu++

   Ed: I would like for people to hear that discussion, whether that
   happens on the telcon or on the list, I don't mind. Just want to be
   part of the discussion.

   Antoine: I think we have a proposal on the table, to start with...
   ... and whatever we decide on top of, we can decide in the calls.

   TomB: I think we have two proposals: to use the wiki page and to use
   the mailing list
   ... One of our rationales was to make this more open for people who
   couldn't make the telcos. On the list, people will see that.

   <Zakim> jodi, you wanted to suggest mailing list + wiki in
   combination

   Jodi: I would like the calls to go out on the list, but in order to
   avoid emails overflow, for ``replies" to be made in a wiki page.

   <TomB> +1 to Jodi's suggestion

   <michaelp> But discussion of report content has to happen on the
   calls as well.

   <marcia> +1 Jodi: call through email, sign up on the wiki

   Antoine: Let's move back to the cluster discussion.
   ... In the next week we'll start that.

   <mduke> +1 Jodi

   Antoine: Thanks for the input -- it's extremely precious for the
   life of the working group.

Authority data cluster

   Jeff: I think we need a week for this.

   <scribe> ACTION: Jeff and Alexander to curate authority data cluster
   for end of December [recorded in
   [26]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minu
   tes.html#action06 [CONTINUES]

     [26] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minutes.html#action06

   <Zakim> mduke, you wanted to ask if anything needed from use case
   shepherds - is this authority data cluster?

   Monica: I'm the shepard of one of the use cases in Jeff's cluster.
   Jeff, do you need anything specific from the shepards of these use
   cases at this point?

   <rsinger> "don't call us, we'll call you"

   Antoine: The cluster curators should be in touch with the use case
   shepards if anything is needed.

Vocabulary alignment cluster

   Michael: I think it can be closed. We probably have another call,
   but I think the changes are going to be very minor, if anything.

   <scribe> ACTION: Antoine and Michael to curate vocabulary alignment
   cluster for end of December [recorded in
   [27]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minu
   tes.html#action07] [DONE]

     [27] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minutes.html#action07

   Antoine: Still looking at edits from Michael, but I agree that we
   can move to reviewing.

Archives cluster

   Emma: We haven't done anything in the last few weeks, so I think we
   can close this.

   Karen: I agree.

   <scribe> ACTION: Karen and Emma to curate archive cluster for end of
   December [recorded in
   [28]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minu
   tes.html#action02] [DONE]

     [28] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minutes.html#action02

Citations cluster

   Antoine: Has had some discussion, I think this cluster is ready to
   be reviewed.

   Ed: yes

   Antoine: This action is already closed

Digital Objects Cluster

   <Jodi> Asaf, can you address that?

   <Jodi> in IRC then?

   <Asaf> Yes, I think we're done.

   <scribe> ACTION: ACTION: Mark, Jodi, and Asaf to curate digital
   objects cluster for end of December [recorded in
   [29]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minu
   tes.html#action04] [DONE]

     [29] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minutes.html#action04

   <Asaf> (We will probably be tweaking it some more once it's in the
   context of everything else in the draft report...)

Collections Cluster

   <GordonD> I expect Collections cluster to be finished next week (I
   hope Karen agrees ;-)

   <kcoyle> yes, i agree

   <scribe> ACTION: GordonD and Karen to curate collection cluster
   [recorded in
   [30]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/01/06-lld-minu
   tes.html#action11 [CONTINUES]

     [30] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/01/06-lld-minutes.html#action11

Social Uses Cluster

   Antoine: This is a new cluster. There's still an ongoing call for
   use cases which ends on February 15. We can't close this action yet.
   ... Have you received some more use cases?

   Jodi: A few, not significant.

   Antoine: suggests sending a reminder email due to the approaching
   deadline.

   <scribe> ACTION: Uldis and Jodi to create social uses cluster
   [recorded in
   [31]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/12/16-lld-minu
   tes.html#action03 [CONTINUES]

     [31] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/12/16-lld-minutes.html#action03

Possible new cluster on web services?

   Antoine: Last week on the mailing list there was discussion of a
   possible new cluster on web services.
   ... Kevin and Joachim -- is there still interest in this?

   Kevin: Is there a need? Should we be creating new clusters at this
   point?

   Antoine: It's up to you. If you and Joachim can identify cases that
   are not being addressed.

   Joachim: I'm not really sure if it's appropriate to add a new
   cluster. This would take some time and there wasn't a lot of
   reaction about this on the mailing list.
   ... How else could we deal with this for the final report?

   <GordonD> CBD discussion touches on Web services ...

   <GordonD> See the Bib data cluster

   Antoine: Maybe you could look at what's in the existing clusters and
   see where the web service dimension could be strengthened? Maybe it
   could be addressed with use case shepards.

   <kefo> will do, GordonD

   <scribe> ACTION: Kevin and Joachim to review content of existing
   clusters to see where the web service dimension could be
   strengthened. [recorded in
   [32]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/02/10-lld-minu
   tes.html#action13]

All Other Business

   Antoine: 2 minutes past our time, so skipping the rest of the
   agenda, is there any other business?

   <rsinger> i did my action from last week:
   [33]http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/Library_data_in_Semantic_Web_form
   ats

     [33] http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/Library_data_in_Semantic_Web_formats

   <scribe> ACTION: Antoine, Emma, TomB to send a call for reviewers to
   the list [recorded in
   [34]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/02/10-lld-minu
   tes.html#action14]

   <rsinger> suggestions for edits most welcome!

   <scribe> ACTION: ross to deprecate the "library data and semantic
   web formats" and create a link to the CKAN efforts [recorded in
   [35]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/02/03-lld-minu
   tes.html#action09 [DONE]

     [35] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/02/03-lld-minutes.html#action09

   Antoine: thanks everyone! see you next week!

   <rsinger> bye!

   <ww> ty bye everyone

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: Antoine, Emma, TomB to send a call for reviewers to
   the list [recorded in
   [36]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/02/10-lld-minu
   tes.html#action14]
   [NEW] ACTION: Jodi to replace placeholders in
   [37]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/DraftReport with
   transclusion code [recorded in
   [38]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/02/10-lld-minu
   tes.html#action04]
   [NEW] ACTION: Kevin and Joachim to review content of existing
   clusters to see where the web service dimension could be
   strengthened. [recorded in
   [39]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/02/10-lld-minu
   tes.html#action13]
   [NEW] ACTION: Tom B to invite Jon Voss for a future telcon, to
   present [40]http://lod-lam.net/summit/ recorded in
   [41]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/02/10-lld-minu
   tes.html#action01]

     [37] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/DraftReport
     [40] http://lod-lam.net/summit/

   [PENDING] ACTION: GordonD and Karen to curate collection cluster
   [recorded in
   [42]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/01/06-lld-minu
   tes.html#action11]
   [PENDING] ACTION: Jeff and Alexander to curate authority data
   cluster for end of December [recorded in
   [43]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minu
   tes.html#action06]
   [PENDING] ACTION: Uldis and Jodi to create social uses cluster
   [recorded in
   [44]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/12/16-lld-minu
   tes.html#action03]

     [42] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/01/06-lld-minutes.html#action11
     [43] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minutes.html#action06
     [44] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/12/16-lld-minutes.html#action03

   [DONE] ACTION: Antoine and Michael to curate vocabulary alignment
   cluster for end of December [recorded in
   [45]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minu
   tes.html#action07]
   [DONE] ACTION: Mark, Jodi, and Asaf to curate digital objects
   cluster for end of December [recorded in
   [46]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minu
   tes.html#action04]]
   [DONE] ACTION: Gordon and Martin to curate bibliographic data
   cluster for end of December [recorded in
   [47]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minu
   tes.html#action05]
   [DONE] ACTION: Karen and Emma to curate archive cluster for end of
   December [recorded in
   [48]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minu
   tes.html#action02]
   [DONE] ACTION: ross to deprecate the "library data and semantic web
   formats" and create a link to the CKAN efforts [recorded in
   [49]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/02/03-lld-minu
   tes.html#action09]

     [45] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minutes.html#action07
     [46] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minutes.html#action04]
     [47] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minutes.html#action05
     [48] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minutes.html#action02
     [49] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/02/03-lld-minutes.html#action09

   [End of minutes]
     _________________________________________________________


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