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Minutes of 2011-02-03 LLD meeting

From: Felix Sasaki <felix.sasaki@fh-potsdam.de>
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 20:09:14 +0100
Message-ID: <AANLkTimU80jLj7C8KPK3ne0vTZjpfsToBppoRVE06EFX@mail.gmail.com>
To: public-xg-lld <public-xg-lld@w3.org>
Hi everyone,

The minutes of our call today are at
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/02/03-lld-minutes.html

A text version follows.

Regards,

Felix

====

   [1]W3C

      [1] http://www.w3.org/

                                LLD XG

03 Feb 2011

   [2]Agenda

      [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011Jan/0169.html

   See also: [3]IRC log

      [3] http://www.w3.org/2011/02/03-lld-irc

Attendees

   Present
          Jodi, michaelp, emma, rsinger, rsinger, antoine, marcia,
          kefo, ww, felix, pmurray, jneubert, TomB, kai, GordonD,
          jeff_, rayd, Asaf, kcoyle, AlexanderH

   Regrets
          Lars, Uldis, Mark, Guenther, Monica, Ed

   Chair
          Antoine

   Scribe
          felix

Contents

     * [4]Topics
         1. [5]admin
         2. [6]final report draft
         3. [7]WIKI PAGE DISCUSSION
         4. [8]USE CASE CLUSTERS
         5. [9]AOB
     * [10]Summary of Action Items
     _________________________________________________________

   <antoine> Previous: 2011-01-27
   [11]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011Jan/0160.h
   tml

     [11] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011Jan/0160.html

   <scribe> scribe: felix

   <antoine> Scribenick: fsasaki

admin

   <antoine> PROPOSED: To accept
   [12]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/01/27-lld-minu
   tes.html

     [12] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/01/27-lld-minutes.html

   RESOLUTION: previous minutes accepted

final report draft

   <antoine> [13]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/DraftReport

     [13] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/DraftReport

   see also
   [14]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/01/27-lld-minu
   tes.html

     [14] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/01/27-lld-minutes.html

   action on Antoine to include executive summary placeholder in report
   - has been done

   <antoine>
   [15]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011Jan/0161.h
   tml

     [15] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011Jan/0161.html

   <TomB> ACTION: Antoine to include executive summary placeholder in
   report [recorded in
   [16]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/01/27-lld-minu
   tes.html#action01] [DONE]

     [16] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/01/27-lld-minutes.html#action01

   <scribe> ACTION: emma to put the Goals page content at the beginning
   of the use case section [recorded in
   [17]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/01/27-lld-minu
   tes.html#action02] [DONE]

     [17] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/01/27-lld-minutes.html#action02

   emma: it is only a draft, would be great if everybody could review
   that piece of text

   <emma>
   [18]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/DraftReport#State_of_t
   he_art_use_cases_and_requirements

     [18] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/DraftReport#State_of_the_art_use_cases_and_requirements

   emma: not sure if it captures the essence of the use case

   antoine: we can check it later, the action is clearly done, thanks a
   lot

   <antoine> ACTION: emma to put the Goals page content at the
   beginning of the use case section [recorded in
   [19]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/01/27-lld-minu
   tes.html#action02] [DONE]

     [19] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/01/27-lld-minutes.html#action02

   <scribe> ACTION: emma to add a 1.4 section (before recommendations)
   on problems and limitations [recorded in
   [20]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/01/27-lld-minu
   tes.html#action05] [DONE]

     [20] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/01/27-lld-minutes.html#action05

   <emma>
   [21]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/DraftReport#Problems_a
   nd_limitations

     [21] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/DraftReport#Problems_and_limitations

   emma: only edited the section with a few links, we have to discuss
   what we want to put in here

   antoine: thanks, we will discuss that later
   ... now about "Fate of library standards and issues pages"

   <scribe> ACTION: GordonD to split
   [22]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Library_standards_and_
   linked_data and make recommendations on where to integrate into the
   final report [recorded in
   [23]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/01/27-lld-minu
   tes.html#action04] [DONE]

     [22] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Library_standards_and_linked_data
     [23] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/01/27-lld-minutes.html#action04

   <kcoyle> link to page?

   <antoine>
   [24]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Library_standards_and_
   linked_data

     [24] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Library_standards_and_linked_data

   <antoine>
   [25]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Library_Data_Resources

     [25] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Library_Data_Resources

   <antoine>
   [26]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Granularity_of_library
   _metadata

     [26] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Granularity_of_library_metadata

   <TomB> Gordon, do you mean
   [27]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/DraftReport#Datasets ?

     [27] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/DraftReport#Datasets

   <GordonD> Library Data Resources - needs a placeholder in Final
   report, in Available data section.

   <GordonD> Library standards and linked data, following discussion at
   future telecon, probably fits the Problems and limitations section
   of the Final report.

   (above and below are gordon's suggestions for reorganising the
   material)

   <TomB> +1 sounds good Gordon

   <jodi> +1

   karen: we gathered a lot of data

   <GordonD> Final note for the record: the Granularities page is now
   incorporated in the Library standards and linked data page.

   karen: I would like to see our report to be an analysis of what we
   gathered
   ... we seem to be ending up with a list of information
   ... we should discuss how we end of with the analysis from that list
   ... we don't know how all of those standards, librarry data
   structure
   ... fits in into linked data

   <TomB> +1 lists will get stale quickly - emphasizing analysis is
   good

   karen: we have no answer, but a question
   ... we gathered some data for beginning
   ... we need to say: here is a beginning of a task that needs to
   happen
   ... i.e. how to go from library data to linked data

   <emma> +1, karen !

   antoine: sounds good

   karen: somebody has to write that analysis part

   antoine: couldn't that be for many of these sections?

   karen: that is true for every section

   antoine: agree, people should volunteer for curating these sections

   <jodi> +1 to writers and reviewers

   <jodi> +1 to appendices also

   karen: some things which are in the report will end up to be
   appendicies with long lists of things

   <TomB> +1 to pushing things into appendices

   <GordonD> +1 for all these suggestions

   <Zakim> TomB, you wanted to suggest that we have writers -- and
   _reviewers_

   tom: completely agree with karen
   ... in addition to writers we need reviewers

   <jodi> also the better (more complete, more readable, ...) each
   section will get, from review

   tom: the more we read the entire report the more we will understand
   the coherence of the report

   <jodi> coherence++

   tom: we are going to need to iterate through all of these sections
   for a few times
   ... we need to get the authors themselves involved in thinking about
   what a section is trying to do, how well it is communicated, what is
   needed to be done

   antoine: above comments in the minutes makes a lot of sense for
   everyone
   ... should we record an action or resolution?

   tom: no need for a resolution
   ... creating the agenda (of calls) we should look for reviewers

   antoine: ok, let's discuss that in upcoming calls

   <scribe> ACTION: gordon to update the draft report structure with
   suggestions he made concerning the wiki pages [recorded in
   [28]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/02/03-lld-minu
   tes.html#action06]

   antoine: wiki page about granularity of library data is now obsolete

   gordon: correct
   ... will delete content to granularity page, you may want to remove
   that from the archives

WIKI PAGE DISCUSSION

   <antoine>
   [29]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011Jan/0148.h
   tml

     [29] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011Jan/0148.html

   antoine: there was a discussion on a storyboard, for the "youtube"
   page

   tom: I would lead towards dropping that as an action for the
   incubator group
   ... we are getting short on time, doing the report has a higher
   priority
   ... I suggest that we continue it, but not as a critical deliverable
   ... it is fun to think about these ideas, so I would be in favor of
   continuing it, but not regard it as a deliverable of the group
   ... shouldn't be a high priority

   <GordonD> +1 Tom's suggestion

   antoine: would keep it as trailing part of our agenda

   <antoine>
   [30]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/File:LayeredModelV3.pd
   f

     [30] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/File:LayeredModelV3.pdf

   emma: was an illustration for library standards resoruce page
   ... tried to explain how library standards relate to each other, to
   dublin core, linked data standards
   ... was an important step to draw it

   <kcoyle> +1

   antoine: should we start a discussion on the list?

   emma: yes, but I have to update it first
   ... some things we defined that should be integrated in the last
   part of the diagram

   <GordonD> I think it's important to include the broad relationships
   between components - I'd like to see the diagram in the final report

   <scribe> ACTION: emma to update "layered model" diagram model and
   lead a discussion on it in the coming weeks [recorded in
   [31]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/02/03-lld-minu
   tes.html#action07]

   karen: we have the page with a lot of presentations

   <jodi> that list is VERY messy

   karen: tom's idea was that we would extract some good illustrations
   that could be re-used

   <jodi> [32]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Presentations

     [32] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Presentations

   karen: diagrams would be an example, to be used to explain ideas
   ... but we need to discuss this - I would take an action to go
   through presentations and see what we can use

   tom: an idea was that we have powerpoint presentation as part of our
   deliverables

   <jodi> it could also help in writing the executive summary

   <jodi> i.e. what to say to "decision makers"

   tom: I think we need to concentrate our discussion on what our main
   results our
   ... not sure if we can have a PP presentation as an output of the
   group
   ... but having some sort of a presentation format can become a focus
   for discussing our message in a really condensed way
   ... a lot of us will have an opportunity to give presentations,
   would be good to have slides to draw upon

   <GordonD> +1 for a standard presentation

   <ww> +1 for materials and building blocks

   <kcoyle> +1 for good set of graphics

   antoine: good ideas - if somebody will take an action, I would be
   fine

   <jodi> +1 for all of the above!

   <jodi> kcoyle++

   karen: I could look through the presentations and begin to extract
   some things, to help to start the discussion

   <TomB> kcoyle++

   <scribe> ACTION: karen to look through the presentations and begin
   to extract some things, to help to start the discussion [recorded in
   [33]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/02/03-lld-minu
   tes.html#action08]

   <Zakim> emma, you wanted to be careful about property rights

   emma: make sure that you have the right for the owners and that it
   does not conflict with W3C rules

   karen: sure

   <Zakim> TomB, you wanted to suggest that we give credit

   tom: we will give people give credit on the bottom of the slides,
   with regards to the source

   <antoine>
   [34]http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/Library_data_in_Semantic_Web_form
   ats

     [34] http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/Library_data_in_Semantic_Web_formats

   antoine: wiki page you created "library data and semantic web
   formats"
   ... can we declare that page as superseded by the CKAN efforts?

   ross: yes, I think we agreed on that
   ... we can deprecate that wikipage in favor of CKAN efforts

   <scribe> ACTION: ross to deprecate the "library data and semantic
   web formats" and create a link to the CKAN efforts [recorded in
   [35]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/02/03-lld-minu
   tes.html#action09]

   <jodi> 'deprecate' means that we'll be sure that any info on the
   wiki will get into CKAN, before deleting the page and redirecting it
   to CKAN?

   <TomB> +1 happy with CKAN approach

   ross: there is hardly any information on the page anyway

   <jodi> Thanks, Ross! :)

   ross: the information will go into ckan, and there will be a note
   that any information you have will go into CKAN, and how to do that

USE CASE CLUSTERS

   <AlexanderH>
   [36]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Cluster_Authority_data

     [36] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Cluster_Authority_data

   <jeff_>
   [37]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Cluster_Authority_data

     [37] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Cluster_Authority_data

   antoine: today talking about authority data cluster

   jeff: still rough, still with stuff that needs to be sorted out
   ... in UNIMARC a primary entity was defined, which authority data is
   about
   ... it is about persons, organisations etc.
   ... some things are difficult to model
   ... if you think about the RDF ontology for example
   ... XYZ was thinking about a group of mathematicians
   ... not sure about how to model that in RDA
   ... the entities are the things which we are famiiar with from FRBR

   <AlexanderH> undifferentiated persons

   jeff: in the US we tend to think about personal things etc.,
   modeling different types of heading
   ... Antoine has modled parts of the MADS ontology nicely in SKOS

   <TomB> @emma: suggest continuing with wiki page discussion next week
   starting with Topics, Semantic_Web_terminology...

   jeff: modeling in FRBR and labeling stuff can be done in SKOS, as a
   basis
   ... Alexander is a little bit uncomfortable with modeling in SKOS
   ... he would like to see some abstractions from SKOS
   ... not really comfortable with "real world object" term
   ... the concepts can be included in real world objects, so not
   comfortable with re-defining real world object
   ... the metadata is not about the thing, but the properties of it

   antoine: the cluster is about reflecting what is in the use cases

   jeff: a lot of use cases don't think about conceptualisation
   ... very little what they have in common
   ... what is what makes them "authority"?

   <marcia> maybe list those questions in the 'Limitations and
   Questions"

   jeff: the model, a particiular vocabulary being used, ....
   ... the kind o entities being there?

   <kcoyle> +1 what antoine says - reflect differences as well as
   similarities

   alexander: to answer the question "what is authority data"?
   ... we try to make sure that we have a kind of indicator of
   authority
   ... that is something what we should discuss on the list - what is
   in, what is out?
   ... people can add information to linked data, and they can mess it
   up

   <GordonD> The question is: what "things" are libraries interested in
   - as authorities?

   alexander: so is the organisation publishing something important for
   judging authority, or what else?

   <GordonD> That is, of all the "things" that are the subjects of
   non-library triples.

   antoine: if you feel you need the input from the group on these
   aspects, please feel free to ask about it
   ... issues are all important, we have discussed some of them quite a
   lot
   ... but we may just want to resolve that there are some open issues
   that we cann't finish now
   ... please discuss with the way you think it is useful
   ... I do feel that it is very important that we base our discussions
   on observable applications

   <GordonD> We can include the broader authority issues in the
   forthcoming telecon on the Library standards and linked data page

   antoine: thanks a lot, Jeff, alexander, joachim

AOB

   antoine: thanks for today, adjourn

   <kefo> bye

   <jodi> bye!

   <rsinger> bye!

   <AlexanderH> bye

   <kai> bye

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: emma to update "layered model" diagram model and lead
   a discussion on it in the coming weeks [recorded in
   [38]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/02/03-lld-minu
   tes.html#action07]
   [NEW] ACTION: gordon to update the draft report structure with
   suggestions he made concerning the wiki pages [recorded in
   [39]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/02/03-lld-minu
   tes.html#action06]
   [NEW] ACTION: karen to look through the presentations and begin to
   extract some things, to help to start the discussion [recorded in
   [40]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/02/03-lld-minu
   tes.html#action08]
   [NEW] ACTION: ross to deprecate the "library data and semantic web
   formats" and create a link to the CKAN efforts [recorded in
   [41]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/02/03-lld-minu
   tes.html#action09]

   [DONE] ACTION: Antoine to include executive summary placeholder in
   report [recorded in
   [42]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/01/27-lld-minu
   tes.html#action01]
   [DONE] ACTION: emma to add a 1.4 section (before recommendations) on
   problems and limitations [recorded in
   [43]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/01/27-lld-minu
   tes.html#action05]
   [DONE] ACTION: emma to put the Goals page content at the beginning
   of the use case section [recorded in
   [44]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/01/27-lld-minu
   tes.html#action02]
   [DONE] ACTION: GordonD to split
   [45]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Library_standards_and_
   linked_data and make recommendations on where to integrate into the
   final report [recorded in
   [46]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/01/27-lld-minu
   tes.html#action04]

     [42] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/01/27-lld-minutes.html#action01
     [43] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/01/27-lld-minutes.html#action05
     [44] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/01/27-lld-minutes.html#action02
     [45] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Library_standards_and_linked_data
     [46] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/01/27-lld-minutes.html#action04

   [End of minutes]
     _________________________________________________________


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