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Minutes of 2010-09-30 LLD meeting

From: <gordon@gordondunsire.com>
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 19:35:49 +0100 (BST)
To: public-xg-lld@w3.org
Message-ID: <613691568.123758.1285871749453.JavaMail.open-xchange@oxltgw15.schlund.de>
 All:
 
The minutes of today's call are at
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/09/30-lld-minutes.html
 
A text version follows.
 
Cheers
 
Gordon
 
Text:
 
[1]W3C
 
[1] http://www.w3.org/
 
LLD XG
 
30 Sep 2010
 
[2]Agenda
 
[2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2010Sep/0095.html
 
See also: [3]IRC log
 
[3] http://www.w3.org/2010/09/30-lld-irc
 
Attendees
 
Present
TomB, GordonD, Asaf, emma, antoine, Felix, kcoyle, kefo,
rsinger, AlexanderH, gneher, marcia, monica, marma, jneubert,
pmurray, kai, digikim, jodi, edsu, michaelp
 
Regrets
Ray, Annette, Lars, Bernard, Tod
 
Chair
Antoine
 
Scribe
Gordon
 
Contents
 
* [4]Topics
1. [5]Admin
2. [6]Face-to-face meetings
3. [7]Use cases and case studies - update
4. [8]Topics for LLD discussion and Use Cases (Karen)
5. [9]Wiki pages for capturing relevant links and ideas
6. [10]Upcoming topics - FYI...
7. [11]AOB
* [12]Summary of Action Items
_________________________________________________________
 
<antoine> Agenda:
[13]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2010Sep/0095.h
tml
 
[13] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2010Sep/0095.html
 
<antoine> Scribe: Gordon
 
<antoine> Scribenick: GordonD
 
Admin
 
<antoine>
[14]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/09/23-lld-minu
tes.html
 
[14] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/09/23-lld-minutes.html
 
RESOLUTION: Accept minutes
 
Face-to-face meetings
 
<antoine> [15]http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/JointMeeting2010
 
[15] http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/JointMeeting2010
 
Tom: I am working with Pete Johnston on the joint meeting with DC
Architecture Forum
 
<emma> here is the background document (from the agenda)
[16]http://dublincore.org/architecturewiki/DcamInContext
 
[16] http://dublincore.org/architecturewiki/DcamInContext
 
TomB: Meeting agenda is near-final, basic outline, unless anyone
wishes to add something
 
<jodi> (also try scrolling down, there's a float drop problem in
that webpage)
 
<scribe> ACTION: Any proposed changes to [17]agenda for joint
meeting with DC Architecture Forum
(http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/JointMeeting2010), please email TomB
[recorded in
[18]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/09/30-lld-minu
tes.html#action01]
 
[17] http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/JointMeeting2010
 
<antoine>
[19]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/F2F_Pittsburgh
 
[19] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/F2F_Pittsburgh
 
Antoine: Agenda for face2face meeting under development
... intention today is to make progress on draft agenda
 
jneubert: agenda for Cologne meeting will be developed after
mid-October
 
antoine: Will allow output of Pittsburgh f2f to be considered
 
Use cases and case studies - update
 
Karen: Have made progress on structuring use cases against topic
list
 
emma: Need to find use cases that illustrate topics (if no use case
matched so far)
 
<Asaf> Perhaps a clarification is needed in the Topic wiki page as
to what the nicks after each item mean -- people interested in the
topic? People owning use cases related to the topic? etc.
 
emma: Suggest next couple of calls discuss who is interested in each
topic, and why, to fill-in gaps in use-case evidence
 
Karen: Spreadsheet created to match use-cases against topics
 
Antoine: Useful to share with the group, and group members can
confirm matches
 
<Asaf> I volunteer to help convert it to a Wiki table. I grok wiki
syntax.
 
<jodi> it is possible to share a google doc with a mailing list, but
I don't think that's the preferrred alternative
 
Karen: Will export spreadsheet in csv for conversion to a wiki table
 
<Asaf> yup
 
<scribe> ACTION: Karen to export spreadsheet, and Asaf to convert to
wiki table [recorded in
[20]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/09/30-lld-minu
tes.html#action02]
 
emma: suggest conversion of Karen's other document to wiki, link-up
table to use-cases, etc.
... spreadsheet is becoming difficult to use as number of use cases
increases
 
Karen: some topics may not have use cases, we need to identify and
provide additional evidence
 
<scribe> ACTION: Use-case owner(s) to check table and matches
[recorded in
[21]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/09/30-lld-minu
tes.html#action03]
 
<scribe> ACTION: Topic owners to check table and think about
supplying additional use-cases [recorded in
[22]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/09/30-lld-minu
tes.html#action04]
 
<scribe> ACTION: emma, kcoyle, GordonD, Marcia, bvatant to structure
the discussion of use cases in light of the topic list [recorded in
[23]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/09/23-lld-minu
tes.html#action01] [CONTINUES]
 
[23]
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/09/23-lld-minutes.html#action01
 
<Asaf> Repeat my earlier comment: <Asaf> Perhaps a clarification is
needed in the Topic wiki page as to what the nicks after each item
mean -- people interested in the topic? People owning use cases
related to the topic? etc.
 
<antoine>
[24]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Topics#Nicknames
 
[24] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Topics#Nicknames
 
<Asaf> +q
 
<Zakim> monica, you wanted to ask if adding topics/interests still
welcome
 
<emma> observes that we have a pending action on this
 
<scribe> [recorded in
[25]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/07/08-lld-minu
tes.html#action08]
 
[25]
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/07/08-lld-minutes.html#action08
 
<marcia> Could Kai introduce what he did before for user case
studies?
 
antoine: changing topics may cause problems for matching process,
suggest any changes signalled to list as an alert
 
<kai> @marcia: what do you mean?
 
<marcia> you did user case analysis before, how did you do?
 
<marcia> using a topic sheet to match or...?
 
asaf: clarify - what is relationship between topics and nicks
(interest, action, other?)
 
<kai> ah, ok. Yes, I did it for software development, but I am not
sure if this does lead to more confusion... ;-)
 
<emma> @asaf, initially it means that people are interested in the
topics
 
<kai> marcia? can you speak?
 
marcia: what did Kai do with use cases previously?
 
kai: abstract use cases to identify requirements, requirements then
related back to use cases
... need to curate use cases, especially when submitted from outside
the group
... for example, relating use cases to each other, assign to topics
... use cases may cluster hierarchically, allows abstraction to
identify requirements
 
antoine: use case curators should feed back to use case owners to
improve clarity, etc.
 
<Asaf> My use case is almost finished:
[26]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/User:Abartov/DraftUC
-- but I can't quite find instruction on how to contribute a use
case from within the group -- do I just stick it in [[Use Cases]] or
do I send it to Karen or...?
 
[26] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/User:Abartov/DraftUC
 
<emma> @asaf just stick it in [[Use Cases]]
 
<emma> then send a message to the list to announce it
 
<Zakim> emma, you wanted to ask if we have to modify the use cases
in the process
 
emma: use cases may be modified during curation
 
antoine: but care should be taken to preserve original
meaning/intention
 
<antoine> ?
 
<marcia> thanks, Kai, very helpful.
 
<kai> thanks marcia, you are welcome :-)
 
alexander: where and how do we define requirements; need to be
separate from topics
... can begin to identify/define requirements during use case
curation
 
antoine: f2f meeting a good opportunity to start identification of
requirements
... may be difficult to do it in advance of f2f: short timescale,
new use cases may arrive
 
alexander: we could set up infrastructure for initial identification
of requirements (ad hoc) prior to f2f
 
<jodi> alexander: duly noted! :)
 
<scribe> ACTION: Alexander to create wiki page for identifying
requirements [recorded in
[27]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/09/30-lld-minu
tes.html#action06]
 
<Zakim> emma, you wanted to ask if UC curation before or after F2F
 
emma: do we have to identify requirements as well as matching topics
 
antoine: no obligation to do so
 
karen: may need to give topics identifiers (numbers) to make
cross-referencing easier
 
<TomB> suggest we not number them, but name them (simple handles)
 
<emma> +1 for IDs ;-)
 
<fsasaki> +1
 
<marcia> +1 tomB
 
+1 tomB
 
<Asaf> Also, if the topics are Wiki headings, they are easily
referenced as anchors.
 
karen: need nicknames for topics
 
<kai> +1
 
antoine: be careful not to expend too much effort before f2f
 
emma: need to do something now, to be prepared
... can be incorporated into use case/topic matching process
 
<marcia> I think some topics contain more than one in one topic
line, the first thing maybe to break down
 
Topics for LLD discussion and Use Cases (Karen)
 
<scribe> ACTION: Everyone to elaborate on topics in the wiki
[recorded in
[28]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/07/08-lld-minu
tes.html#action08] [CONTINUES]
 
[28]
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/07/08-lld-minutes.html#action08
 
Wiki pages for capturing relevant links and ideas
 
Upcoming topics - FYI...
 
AOB
 
Summary of Action Items
 
[NEW] ACTION: Alexander to create wiki page for identifying
requirements [recorded in
[29]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/09/30-lld-minu
tes.html#action06]
[NEW] ACTION: Any proposed changes to the [30]agenda for joint
meeting with DC Architecture Forum
(http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/JointMeeting2010), please email TomB
[recorded in
[31]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/09/30-lld-minu
tes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: Karen to export spreadsheet, and Asaf to convert to
wiki table [recorded in
[32]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/09/30-lld-minu
tes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: Topic owners to check table and think about supplying
additional use-cases [recorded in
[33]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/09/30-lld-minu
tes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: Use-case owner(s) to check table and matches [recorded
in
[34]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/09/30-lld-minu
tes.html#action03]
 
[30] http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/JointMeeting2010
 
[PENDING] ACTION: emma, kcoyle, GordonD, Marcia, bvatant to
structure the discussion of use cases in light of the topic list
[recorded in
[35]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/09/23-lld-minu
tes.html#action01]
[PENDING] ACTION: Everyone to elaborate on topics in the wiki
[recorded in
[36]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/07/08-lld-minu
tes.html#action08]
 
[35]
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/09/23-lld-minutes.html#action01
[36]
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/07/08-lld-minutes.html#action08
 
[End of minutes]
_________________________________________________________
 
 
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Received on Thursday, 30 September 2010 18:36:25 GMT

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