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Minutes of 2010-11-25 LLD meeting

From: Monica Duke <m.duke@ukoln.ac.uk>
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2010 11:48:49 +0000
Message-ID: <4CEF9EA1.7080409@ukoln.ac.uk>
To: public-xg-lld <public-xg-lld@w3.org>
Hi Everyone,
The minutes of the call yesterday are here
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/11/25-lld-minutes.html

A text version follows.

Thanks especially to Antoine for assistance producing the minutes.

We seem to possibly have a missing action that was not marked as an 
action - 'everyone to read report outline and give feedback'.  There are 
a number of other running actions so we might not make this one explicit 
but just to draw attention to the request.

Monica

1]W3C

       [1] http://www.w3.org/

                                 LLD XG

25 Nov 2010

    [2]Agenda

       [2] 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2010Nov/0122.html

    See also: [3]IRC log

       [3] http://www.w3.org/2010/11/25-lld-irc

Attendees

    Present
           antoine, emma, GordonD, markva, AlexanderH, felix, Jodi, ww,
           monica, kcoyle, marcia, kai, digikim, joachim, Asaf

    Regrets
           Ray, Tom, Ed, Peter, Jeff, Kevin, Marcia, Anette, Andras,
           Lars, Martin, alex, bernard

    Chair
           Emma

    Scribe
           Monica

Contents

      * [4]Topics
          1. [5]Admin
          2. [6]PITTSBURGH MEETING - RESULTS
          3. [7]USECASES
          4. [8]USE CASE ACTIONS
          5. [9]wikipages
          6. [10]UPCOMING FACE-TO-FACE MEETING AT SWIB10 IN COLOGNE
      * [11]Summary of Action Items
      _________________________________________________________

    <emma> Previous:
    [12]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/11/18-lld-minu
    tes.html

      [12] 
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/11/18-lld-minutes.html

    <emma> Scribe: Monica

    <emma> scribenick: monica

Admin

    PROPOSED: To accept minutes of previous telecon:
    [13]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/11/18-lld-minu
    tes.html

      [13] 
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/11/18-lld-minutes.html

    ACCEPTED

PITTSBURGH MEETING - RESULTS

    <emma>
    [14]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/FinalReportOutline

      [14] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/FinalReportOutline

    Emma: Outline of the report
    ...some participants have asked for outline of report
    ...this is very early draft in early stages everyone welcome to
    comment

    ...usecases and requirements extracted from UC will be in section of
    report

    <emma>
    [15]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2010Nov/0120.h
    tml

      [15] 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2010Nov/0120.html

    ... we need to figure out what it will look like

    \me too much keyboard noise

    <markva> I hear someone typing; cannot hear discussion well

    ... next report section - available data

    <markva> question about terminology
    ... 'vocabulary' a loaded term
    ... element sets proposed for things like FRBR
    ... is this the time to make the decision

    <AlexanderH> +1 value vocabularies

    <antoine> at least in the report what is aimed is "metadata element
    set"

    ... limited number of people joined in the discussion

    <antoine> ... in section "vocabularies"

    ... what is the process for coming to a decision?

    <marcia> FRBR is a conceptual model

    ... discussion seems to be spread across multiple threads

    <jodi> Re: AW: SemWeb terminology page is one of the other threads

    <kcoyle> there is also a frbr ontology that has been defined in a
    number of formats

    emma: placeholder in report for terminology

    <kcoyle> there is frbroo, frbrer, and frbr core

    <marcia> conceptual model and data model should be differently
    identified

    emma: sees discussion on irc invites contributions

    marcia: conceptual models are models, implementations are different
    ... original FRBR is still conceptual model

    <kcoyle> they are -- they have been defined in rdf

    emma: once in RDF would they be vocabularies?

    <markva> +1 Alexander

    AlexanderH: discussion is more about separation between value
    vocabularies and element sets

    <GordonD> Vocabularies derived from conceptual models can be used in
    same way as those derived from data models - just expect conceptual
    models to be broader or less detailed

    <kcoyle> yes, that is the discussion

    antoine: the report should only mention conceptual models through
    their implementation as metadata vocabularies ?

    <AlexanderH> but there are properties that don't derive from models
    i.e. FOAF

    <markva> there is an implicit model in docs of FOAF

    emma: agrees with AlexanderH

    <markva> I think model/implementation discussion not relevant here

    AlexanderH: make distinction that conceptual models are models and
    have been implemented

    emma: not make decision now but on mailing list
    ... back to outline of report

    <danbri> there certainly was some thinking behind the FOAF design;
    it wasn't arbitrary, although it evolved bit by bit. But FOAF isn't
    an RDFification of some pre-existing, written down 'model'...

    emma: next section recommendations
    ... tried to organise outcomes of F2F mtg into sections
    ... again very early draft to give idea of how to organise report,
    non-definitive
    ... everybody please look at report outline

    <GordonD> Why say "LLdata should be produced using the FR's as
    domain model."? There are other domain models, eg ISBD ...

    <markva> is an action?

    emma: we need feedback on early draft to move forward
    ... any comments?

    <antoine> @GordonD: good point to make in your future remarks on the
    outline :-)

    <markva> sounds good

    emma: feedback welcome on list discuss further on future call

USECASES

    [16]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/UseCases

      [16] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/UseCases

    emma: invites comments from cluster owners

    markv: no further progress to report
    ... emails suggested scenarios need to be extracted

    emma: idea is to suggest how it could look like in report
    ... how to tranform use cases into something readable for report

    <GordonD> Gordon and Martin yet to start on their cluster - but
    expect to make good progress after we get started ;-)

    mark: no time to look at that yet

    <antoine> idea of abstract scenarios was also mentioned in previous
    calls here

    markva: is this agreed? what is the status?

    emma: not decided mentioned on previous call
    ... need feedback from clusters if it is a good idea

    <GordonD> +1 for abstraction

    markva: agrees it is a good idea to give more abstraction

    <antoine> +1 with abstracting

    emma: in archive cluster we have started to look at this and work in
    that direction

    <markva> hard time hearing

    <kcoyle> we have new goals; we need to decide whether to add them to
    the goals page

    <kcoyle> or to create a new page, or a new section on that page

    <markva> great!!

    emma: we tried to make goals fit ones from mark's cluster, but they
    were quite different
    ... we need to add new goals to the page

    <emma> [17]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Goals

      [17] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Goals

    <antoine> +1 with that process!

    emma: more description for goals needed
    ... any other feedback?

    <markva> yep, hard to define goals clearly, generic and specific at
    same time

USE CASE ACTIONS

    monica: my colleagues at JISC couldn't make it for today
    ... but they're happy to discuss on the public list
    ... what is the interest of the group here?
    ... how JISC gathers information? Something else?
    ... this will help identify who would come and talk about the JISC
    work

    <jodi> for me the interest is how they gathered the use cases

    emma: interest in on UCs they gathered on the web site

    <jodi> and whether they have any suggestions for comparing our use
    cases to theirs

    <jodi> (I'd like to make sure we don't have systematic bias in how
    we've come up with them, by doing them the same way.)

    monica: ok, I'll see if owen stephens can answers questions

    monica: easier however if discussion start on list for better
    scoping

    <scribe> ACTION: Antoine to ask Monica to lead discussion about JISC
    use cases at [18]http://obd.jisc.ac.uk/navigate recorded in
    [19]http://www.w3.org/2010/11/18-lld-minutes.html#action03] [DONE]

      [18] http://obd.jisc.ac.uk/navigate
      [19] http://www.w3.org/2010/11/18-lld-minutes.html#action03

    <scribe> ACTION: Monica and JISC colleagues to introduce and discuss
    JISC work on next call [recorded in
    [20]http://www.w3.org/2010/11/25-lld-minutes.html#action02]

      [20] http://www.w3.org/2010/11/25-lld-minutes.html#action02

wikipages

    <emma>
    [21]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2010Nov/0107.h
    tml

      [21] 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2010Nov/0107.html

    <antoine> ACTION: William: to summarize options for using CKAN to
    the list, before next concall [recorded in
    [22]http://www.w3.org/2010/11/11-lld-minutes.html#action01] [DONE]

      [22] http://www.w3.org/2010/11/11-lld-minutes.html#action01

    william: reiterate what is in email
    ...for people to curate group people need to login to CKAN
    ...inform ww and kcoyle about their openID
    ... could we all do this?

    <jodi> I'm interested, need to login, etc. :)

    <antoine> +1

    <Asaf> long-term, maybe. Right now, quite over-committed.

    emma: volunteers to curate CKAN
    ... jodi, antoine

    <GordonD> +1

    <scribe> ACTION: volunteers to send login information to william
    waite to curate CKAN [recorded in
    [23]http://www.w3.org/2010/11/25-lld-minutes.html#action04]

      [23] http://www.w3.org/2010/11/25-lld-minutes.html#action04

    TOPIC UPCOMING FACE-TO-FACE MEETING AT SWIB10 IN COLOGNE

    antoine: in ww's mail there was a proposed strategy

    relation between bibliographic and LOD group

    <jodi> +1

    emma: idea is to create an LLD group
    ... was there feedback on the list?

    ww: there was a question about relationship between LOD and LODCloud
    ... LODCloud has more requirements e.g. quality
    ... quality checked manually
    ... that was extent of questions

    anotoine: no objection to suggestion
    ... propose to resolve to follow strategy as suggested by ww

    <antoine>
    [24]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2010Nov/0107.h
    tml

      [24] 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2010Nov/0107.html

    RESOLVE: follow strategy of creating LLD group for CKAN
    [25]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2010Nov/0107.h
    tml

      [25] 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2010Nov/0107.html

    <emma>
    [26]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2010Nov/0128.h
    tml

      [26] 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2010Nov/0128.html

UPCOMING FACE-TO-FACE MEETING AT SWIB10 IN COLOGNE

    emma: agenda has been sent

    antoine: an informal meeting
    ... entire group copied for information
    ... have informal discussion, continue discussion from last weeks
    ... first topic use case clusters
    ...second topic final report outline

    scribe: would people be interested in remote participation?

    emma: is it possible to provide remote participation facility?

    <markva> background noise?

    <markva> ppl talking

    emma: who is interested is it worth doing?

    antoine: annette is not here
    ... is it worth to make the effort to find the phone

    emma: irc implies need to scribe which is more complicated than
    summarising the call

    jneubert: there is a chance to have microphone on the phone will let
    XG know

    emma: who else would like to attend on irc or phone?
    ... not alot of interest

    antoine: not the intention to force people to participate
    ... but anyone wanting to join is welcome but keep it simple

    emma: any other business

    <Asaf> Has any of you been in touch with the Interedition group?

    <Asaf> I just got back from an Interedition meeting in Pisa.

    <Asaf> They are not too aware of linked data.

    <Asaf> I tried to get them interested.

    <Asaf> (still a bit noisy here)

    <Asaf> (probably better to type_)

    <Asaf> So they're doing digital editions of manuscripts. I'll add
    something about it on the wiki, yes.

    <Asaf> yes.

    <markva> bye!

    <digikim> thanks

    <emma> adjourned

    <ww> thanks everyone

Summary of Action Items

    [NEW] ACTION: Monica and JISC colleagues to introduce and discuss
    JISC work on next call [recorded in
    [27]http://www.w3.org/2010/11/25-lld-minutes.html#action02]
    [NEW] ACTION: volunteers to send login information to william waite
    to curate CKAN [recorded in
    [28]http://www.w3.org/2010/11/25-lld-minutes.html#action04]

      [27] http://www.w3.org/2010/11/25-lld-minutes.html#action02
      [28] http://www.w3.org/2010/11/25-lld-minutes.html#action04

    [PENDING] ACTION: Jeff to write one or two paragraphs on VIAF design
    discussions [recorded in
    [29]http://www.w3.org/2010/11/18-lld-minutes.html#action06]
    [PENDING] ACTION: Karen and Emma to curate archive cluster for end
    of december [recorded in
    [30]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minu
    tes.html#action02]
    [PENDING] ACTION: Antoine and Michael to curate vocabulary alignment
    cluster for end of december [recorded in
    [31]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minu
    tes.html#action07]
    [PENDING] ACTION: Gordon and Martin to curate bibliographic data
    cluster for end of december [recorded in
    [32]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minu
    tes.html#action05]
    [PENDING] ACTION: Jeff and Alexander to curate authority data
    cluster for end of december [recorded in
    [33]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minu
    tes.html#action06]
    [PENDING] ACTION: Kai and Ed to curate citations cluster for end of
    december [recorded in
    [34]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minu
    tes.html#action03]
    [PENDING] ACTION: Mark (and Jodi and Asaf) to curate digital objects
    cluster for end of december [recorded in
    [35]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minu
    tes.html#action04]
    [PENDING] ACTION: Alex, Jeff, Martin, MichaelP elaborate on general
    purpose IT architecture for dealing with linked data with caching
    feature [recorded in
    [36]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/24‑lld‑minu
    tes.html#action04]
    [PENDING] ACTION: Emma and Antoine to create use case
    DATA.SEARCH-OPTIMIZATION [recorded in
    [37]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/24‑lld‑minu
    tes.html#action06]
    [PENDING] ACTION: for each use case champion: on the Vocabularies
    page, link to each URL use case that uses it [recorded in
    [38]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23‑lld‑minu
    tes.html#action01]
    [PENDING] ACTION: GordonD and Antoine to study use cases that relate
    to vocabulary merging use case [recorded in
    [39]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/24-lld-minu
    tes.html#action01]

      [29] http://www.w3.org/2010/11/18-lld-minutes.html#action06
      [30] 
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minutes.html#action02
      [31] 
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minutes.html#action07
      [32] 
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minutes.html#action05
      [33] 
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minutes.html#action06
      [34] 
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minutes.html#action03
      [35] 
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minutes.html#action04
      [36] 
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/24%E2%80%91lld%E2%80%91minutes.html#action04
      [37] 
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/24%E2%80%91lld%E2%80%91minutes.html#action06
      [38] 
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23%E2%80%91lld%E2%80%91minutes.html#action01
      [39] 
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/24-lld-minutes.html#action01

    [DONE] ACTION: Antoine to ask Monica to lead discussion about JISC
    use cases at [40]http://obd.jisc.ac.uk/navigate recorded in
    [41]http://www.w3.org/2010/11/18-lld-minutes.html#action03]
    [DONE] ACTION: William: to summarize options for using CKAN to the
    list, before next concall [recorded in
    [42]http://www.w3.org/2010/11/11-lld-minutes.html#action01]

      [40] http://obd.jisc.ac.uk/navigate
      [41] http://www.w3.org/2010/11/18-lld-minutes.html#action03
      [42] http://www.w3.org/2010/11/11-lld-minutes.html#action01

    [End of minutes]
      _________________________________________________________


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