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minutes: RWAB XG call 2008-08-04 [DRAFT]

From: Gregory J. Rosmaita <oedipus@hicom.net>
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 17:12:30 +0100
To: public-xg-app-backplane@w3.org
Cc: Rahul P Akolkar <akolkar@us.ibm.com>, Thomas Ling <ling@us.ibm.com>
Message-Id: <20080805160920.M69809@hicom.net>

aloha, all!

minutes from today's RWAB XG call are available at:


an IRC log of the call is also available via:


and as plain text following my signature -- as usual please 
reply-to this post on-list to report any errors, mis-attributions, 
clarifications, additions and/or other reactions...

thank you to all who attended and for being patient with the scribe,


                                   - DRAFT -

                          Backplane XG Teleconference

05 Aug 2008


   See also: IRC log - http://www.w3.org/2008/08/05-backplane-irc


          +31.20.616.aaaa, Charlie, Gregory_Rosmaita, Jack_Jansen, Kevin,
          Rahul, Thomas_Ling


          Charlie Wiecha



     * Topics
         1. Beginnings & Agenda Review
         2. Extensions to Data Model
         3. TPAC 2009
     * Summary of Action Items

   oh, it's just you, me and the bots

   <scribe> chair: Charles F Wiecha

   <scribe> Scribe: Gregory_Rosmaita

   ScribeNick+ oeddie


   <jackjansen> What's the code, again?

   <Charlie> RWAB

   <jackjansen> No:-) the mute code...

   <Charlie> ah, sorry

   61# to mute yourself

   60# to unmute

   41# to raise your hand (puts you in queue)

   40# to lower your hand (remove you from the queue

Beginnings & Agenda Review

   <jackjansen> thanks

   CW: what should we do today?
   ... update on data model and UI control stuff?

   Kevin: what is quorum criteria for RWAB XG

   CW: don't want anyone to fall behind
   ... extensions to data model for 15 minutes
   ... dojo status report

Extensions to Data Model

   <Charlie> www.webdialogs.com/join


   <Charlie> meeting code is 801862

   CW: brainstorm at higher level
   ... review of past work
   ... next week, jack could you present on your model again?

   <jackjansen> ok.

   CW: refactoring data model and advancing pieces of XForms out of
   forms-specificity, but generic component for RWAB; ability to inject
   into dojo, AJAX, and other libraries
   ... Thomas showed us the first demo of that using data models in dojo;
   brainstormed: library agnostic data model
   ... (shares screen with participants)
   ... Thomas' work: uses xforms-ubiquity data model to back both a "data
   provider object" ("data source" in YUI)
   ... demos YUI widget
   ... sends keywords through YUI data object into XForms as side-effect
   triggering submit; triggering xforms control, queries XML data, same
   ... not forcing authors or devs to swallow XForms whole, but to reuse
   slash leverage XForms mechanics and architecture
   ... where to go next - what use cases to explore
   ... in current implementation, have 1 data source object cross product
   of dojo and YUI interfaces
   ... refractor from those objects - can hand you a data object or XML
   instance and plug into both dojo and YUI -
   ... use case - someone taking mashup from dojo framework and YUI
   framework; if want to add widgets built from diff script library, need
   to be able to communicate bilaterally; give me a reference to XForms
   instance - avoid having to tailor for specific framework

   <Charlie> Thomas Ling

   <Charlie> not yet on IRC, sorry

   <Charlie> he's in our team at IBM

   TL: Ajax API and dojo API have different set; pure javascript -
   doesn't depend on a single framework; works on both libraries
   ... data binder could form wider requirements for API - if have to add
   API for each component of toolkit, ability to point to data object

   CW: both dojo and YUI - IDL or interface for data model; more than
   XForms - need to consider methods needed to support; can then plug
   into dojo or YUI

   <jackjansen> question: is Javascript always master, or is there a way
   to trigger javascript execution when data model changes (e.g. through
   xforms or smil)?

   TL: use API for data source; standard way of how dojo or YUI implement
   data source; if person has own component should be able to use common

   CW: pulling data from model side; something causes model to change,
   how does trickle back

   <jackjansen> oeddie, ok thanks

   <Kevin> bye, talk to you next week

   TL: dojo already does that; lets you specify when data model is
   changed or done with update; could implement own javascript API even
   if your widget doesn't support it, can listen for it and call API
   ... YUI has properties - similar to CORBA subset; allows formatting of
   HTML; HTML data model query using XPath, or using XPath to commuicate
   model for delivery as HTML

   CW: triggering event notification into SMIL engine

   JJ: right; interested in apps where time is main control channel;
   using snippets of javascript to describe things in declarative way;
   wouuld like whole model to be declarative

   CW: using XForms-like binding to make look like XForm control or via
   underlying AJAX framework
   ... first more generic

   JJ: way to trigger actions in SMIL, if SMIL model isn't sufficient and
   have to use script, has to trigger model changes

   CW: should pull that into use cases
   ... access controls and custom action - different action bindings
   ... sample app simple from UI point of view
   ... new use case from JJ: controlling custom events and push-back to
   data model
   ... concentrate on data model, rather than wrapper - plug data model
   API into wrapper

TPAC 2009

   CW: Debbie Dahl asked for joint meeting; widgets not always visual -
   fragment of VoiceXML or SMIL shows linearization to different
   ... should meet with MMI and Voice at same time
   ... lot of stuff of interest in web-applications
   ... hour with web-apps at tech plenary
   ... meeting with XHTML2 group?

   GJR: separate conversation with XHTML2 would be beneficial

   CW: will talk with StevenP
   ... MMI, XForms and XHTML2 - will check with kevin about CDF
   ... what about WAI?

   GJR: lunch and an hour or 2 afterwards: telling each other what each
   is doing and syncronizing approaches

   CW: who to contact

   GJR: Al Gilman and michael cooper (cooper@w3.org) and CC to
   ... like to sync demos -

   JJ: which days are we aiming for?

   CW: don't have separate meeting time; membership of XG in multiple
   groups; work on building demos to take into discussions with other

   JJ: may not make it at all - if make it, won't be there for whole five

   CW: meet with whom and who will attend will dictate with whom we speak

   <jackjansen> bye!

   CW: what are themes/talking points in meetings with working groups;
   looking at app point of view in open source - might want to integrate
   accessibilty in talks with other group


Summary of Action Items

   [End of minutes]
Received on Tuesday, 5 August 2008 16:14:24 UTC

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