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Meeting record: 2008-05-21

From: Thomas Roessler <tlr@w3.org>
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 17:09:53 +0200
To: public-wsc-wg@w3.org
Message-ID: <20080606150953.GA35802@iCoaster.does-not-exist.org>

Minutes from our meeting on 2008-05-21 were approved and are
available online here:

   http://www.w3.org/2008/05/21-wsc-minutes.html

A text version is included below the .signature.

-- 
Thomas Roessler, W3C  <tlr@w3.org>




   [1]W3C

                                   - DRAFT -

               Web Security Context Working Group Teleconference
                                  21 May 2008

   [2]Agenda

   See also: [3]IRC log

Attendees

   Present
          MaryEllen_Zurko, PHB, tyler, Bill_Doyle, Maritza_Johnson,
          jvkrey, joesteele, yngve

   Regrets
          <everyone else>

   Chair
          Mez

   Scribe
          PHB2

   Usability testing
   Mez: We only got through day one of the agenda in oslo, this was all
   the exit criteria for june
   11:11 Mez: Should get to last call by end of june
   Mez: Need to talk about run from LC to candidate rec
   Mez: besides last call, have to do testing
   11:12 Mez: interop testing, need to develop test plans, particularly
   conformance test plans
   Mez: Candidate rec entry and exit
   Mez: Thomas not here today, but will try to get something done in his
   absence
   Mez: Conforming implementaitons
   11:13 Mez: discuss conforming implementations after testing
   Mez: not got right people here today
   Mez: so discuss UT
   11:14 Mez: what will we do on UT to get to exit?
   11:16 Marizaj: Status of usability testing
   Mez: no discussion at all since
   Marizaj: Status unchanged since San Jose
   11:17 maritzaj :
   [4]http://www.w3.org/2006/WSC/wiki/RecommendationUsabilityEvaluationFir
   stCut
   Marizaj: Have list of recomended proposals
   Marizaj: Same status as last July, need to discuss what will do for
   each rec
   Mez: some have been lost due to last call
   Mez: some have been lost before last call
   11:18 [5]http://www.w3.org/2006/WSC/drafts/rec/rewrite.html
   Mez: One issue is to move section 8 to own doc which is not going to be
   LC in June.
   11:19 PHB: cuts out a lot of testing
   Mez: Not clear that robustness needs testing
   11:20 jvkrey : section 8 is moved to;
   [6]http://www.w3.org/2006/WSC/drafts/wsc-content/
   11:24 Mez: Not clear that the claims are expressed very well for
   testing
   tyler: Have to go soon, are there any hooks in the implementation that
   would help with testing?
   11:25 Marit: ok
   11:26 Mez: OK lets start on Pet Name Tool (PNT) as a worked example
   Mez :
   [7]http://www.w3.org/2006/WSC/drafts/rec/rewrite.html#sec-petnames
   Maritzaj: yes
   Mez: OK here it is for everyone
   Mez: Other thing wanted to do our email discussion where did we leave
   off?
   Maritzaj: april 24th
   11:27 Mez :
   [8]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wsc-wg/2008Apr/0044.html
   Mez: Do users remember enough to recognize pet names?
   11:29 Maritz: Are people looking for pet names when they should be
   Maritz: not nesc on NYT but certainly on BofA
   ifette: what if users are presented with pet name not reasonably
   theirs?
   ifette: not sure what is a different aspect?
   11:30 tyler: talking about picture in picture attack
   11:31 PHB: need to expose risks even if there is a control
   11:32 Mez: are we gonna capture all this in minutes or should we be
   using the wiki?
   PHB: wiki
   Tyler: for pet name tool...
   11:35 Test where there is gona be an unexpected result
   Mez: not even enough resources for that
   PHB: Categorites of test: Acceptance, communication of information,
   vulnerability to impersonation or emulation
   11:36 Mez: Need to provide some usability claims
   PHB: extra category: does it reliably modify user behavior?
   Tyler: can describe claims simply enough that they can be tested in a
   very lofi way.
   Mez: these are the claims I am relying on with the PNP
   11:37 Maritz: recently
   Tyler: yep
   [will send]
   11:38 ACTION: tyler to create list of usability claims and issues for
   potential testing of petnames section 5.1.6
   Created ACTION-476 - Create list of usability claims and issues for
   potential testing of petnames section 5.1.6 [on Tyler Close - due
   2008-05-28].
   [9]http://www.w3.org/2006/WSC/drafts/rec/rewrite.html#Robustness
   Mez: shall we do robustness?
   [We agree 'cos we do]
   Created ACTION-477 - Put soaps position paper in shared bookmarks [on
   Mary Ellen Zurko - due 2008-05-28].
   11:44 Bill: People may ignore this information
   Bill: May show picture but not the picture you are expecting
   11:45 Mez: Has this feature been adequately tested?
   Bill: Yep, its negative!
   Zakim sees PHB on the speaker queue
   Mez: Thats a web site not a user agent
   Zakim sees PHB, maritzaj on the speaker queue
   Bill: Principle is the same
   Mez: Not clear to me that the results transfer.
   11:46 Mez: going to the link right now, what parts speak to this...
   Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
   11:50 Joe: Dpn't think we shouldn't have usability testing round this
   but there is stuff we should look at.
   PHB: so maybe arguing that this can be avoided due to triage
   11:51 Joe: Is a conforming user agent implementation people can look at
   called Skipper
   [10]http://www.sxipper.com/
   Sxipper
   11:52 Joe: Can change your icon from a dog to graphic of your choice
   Mez: very excited about your volunteering to bring this info together
   Joe: Will do offline
   11:54 ACTION: steele to pull together UT background on 7.1.1 robustness
   recommendation (shared secret)
   trackbot-ng noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
   Created ACTION-478 - Pull together UT background on 7.1.1 robustness
   recommendation (shared secret) [on Joe Steele - due 2008-05-28].
   11:55 Mez: 7.1.2
   11:56 Decided: 7.1.2 does not require usability testing
   [Usability testing is not conformance testing]
   Zakim sees maritzaj on the speaker queue
   Mez: 7.2 you should not use a security indicator that content can mimic
   11:59 Maritzaj: Some of this should also be in the separate document
   about the Web site
   Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
   yngve : [11]https://blog.startcom.org/?p=86
   12:02 ifette apologizes but I have to drop off
   12:03 Mez: Can see us doing usability testing to see if apps conform
   with the second statement
   Mez: if the chrome was not displayed in a manner that confuses
   Mez: only way to test conformance would be to see if it could be
   confused
   12:04 Mez: test could be lo-fi or implementation, show user in a
   session things and ask them if they were controlled or might be
   spoofable.
   12:06 PHB: I think it could be conformance testing rather than user
   testing
   12:07 PHB: if you can make the distinction clear it should not need
   user testing to verify
   12:08 PHB: need to be sparing with usability testing to avoid outdoing
   resources
   Mez: agree we will need triage
   12:09 Mez: OK we could do usability testing but it is not essential for
   7.2
   12:10 Mez: last para, the same
   Mez: not enough argument.
   12:11 <- joesteele has disconnected (Quit: joesteele)
   Mez: maritzaj, what are next steps
   Maritzaj, go through document in order
   Mez: what are the things we might go through in terms of the claims.
   jvkrey thinks "not enough arguments" looks like an error message
   12:12 Mez: would be useful for some person to go through and process as
   will not get back to for several weeks
   jvkrey - it is!
   Maritzaj, could put together arguments people have made
   12:13 [Mez prepares an action]
   ACTION: maritza to pull together usability testing data from archives
   in 2 weeks
   trackbot-ng noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
   Created ACTION-479 - Pull together usability testing data from archives
   in 2 weeks [on Maritza Johnson - due 2008-05-28].
   12:14 Mez: OK good start, close meeting early, see you next week
   SEC_WSCWG()11:00AM has ended
   Attendees were MaryEllen_Zurko, PHB, +1.650.862.aaaa, tyler,
   Bill_Doyle, Maritza_Johnson, +47.23.69.aabb, jvkrey, +1.925.984.aacc,
   joesteele, yngve, +1.650.214.aadd, ifettespan>

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: Created ACTION-476 - Create list of usability claims and
   issues for potential testing of petnames section 5.1.6 [on Tyler Close
   - due 2008-05-28].
   [NEW] ACTION:Created ACTION-477 - Put soaps position paper in shared
   bookmarks [on Mary Ellen Zurko - due 2008-05-28].
   [NEW] ACTION:Created ACTION-478 - Pull together UT background on 7.1.1
   robustness recommendation (shared secret) [on Joe Steele - due
   2008-05-28].
   [NEW] ACTION: Created ACTION-479 - Pull together usability testing data
   from archives in 2 weeks [on Maritza Johnson - due 2008-05-28].
   [End of minutes]
     __________________________________________________________________


    Minutes formatted by hand

References

   1. http://www.w3.org/
   2. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wsc-wg/2008Apr/0028.html
   3. http://www.w3.org/2008/04/16-wsc-irc
   4. http://www.w3.org/2006/WSC/wiki/RecommendationUsabilityEvaluationFirstCut
   5. http://www.w3.org/2006/WSC/drafts/rec/rewrite.html
   6. http://www.w3.org/2006/WSC/drafts/wsc-content/
   7. http://www.w3.org/2006/WSC/drafts/rec/rewrite.html#sec-petnames
   8. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wsc-wg/2008Apr/0044.html
   9. http://www.w3.org/2006/WSC/drafts/rec/rewrite.html#Robustness
  10. http://www.sxipper.com/
  11. https://blog.startcom.org/?p=86

-- 
Thomas Roessler, W3C  <tlr@w3.org>
Received on Friday, 6 June 2008 15:10:38 GMT

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