RE: MOAP v2

Hi Li - comments inline.

thanks
-Doug
______________________________________________________
STSM |  Standards Architect  |  IBM Software Group
(919) 254-6905  |  IBM 444-6905  |  dug@us.ibm.com
The more I'm around some people, the more I like my dog.



"Li, Li (Li)" <lli5@avaya.com> 
Sent by: public-ws-resource-access-request@w3.org
03/02/2010 02:45 PM

To
Doug Davis/Raleigh/IBM@IBMUS
cc
<public-ws-resource-access@w3.org>
Subject
RE: MOAP v2






Doug,
 
Thanks for the clarification. For #2, here is an example:
 
The endpoint has an ?application WSDL? W1 that composes with WS-Eventing 
which is defined by WSDL W2. To declare this relationship, the endpoint 
attaches <wse:EventSource /> and <wse:SubscriptionManager /> to W1, 
without any of the parameters. The endpoint also attaches the two 
assertions with parameters to W2. 
 
Q1: is the above setup supported?
<dug>  yes but two things come to mind.  1) you have no relationship 
between W1 and W2.  W1 needs to have some ref to W2 so that people can 
traverse to the eventing WSDL - assuming its not the default one provided 
by the spec.   2) while you can put the assertions into W2, its not clear 
to me if this is a good or bad thing.  :-)   It seems odd to having an 
eventing wsdl also be required to have the eventing assertions - but it 
probably does no harm - just seems weird to me  </dug>
 
According to the following paragraph in Section 9 of your proposal:
The WS-Eventing WSDL containing the operations indicated by the 
EventSource or SubscriptionManager Assertion MAY be exposed by including 
the WSDL as a child of the appropriate Policy assertion or by including a 
reference to it using the mex:Location or mex:Reference element (as 
described in WS-MetadataExchange [WS-MetadataExchange] Section 9).
In order to retrieve W2 using MEX, I can use 
 
O1: GetMetadata(Dialect=? http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/wsdl/?, 
identifier=?target namespace of W2?), 
<dug> yes </dug>
 
and look at mex:Location for W2 in the response.
<dug> this depends on on GetResponseResponse looks.  It could include the 
metadata directly or it could include a reference to it with 
mex:MetadataReference or mex:MetadataLocation  </dug>
 
Q2: Is this understanding correct?  <dug> see above </dug>

Q3: How would the client know ?target namespace of W2? as it is not 
declared in W1? Is there a one-to-one mapping from the policy assertions 
to the target namespace?
<dug> see above - you really need that link/reference I talked about from 
W1's assertions.  Otherwise, unless W2's tns is ws-eventing's tns, you're 
out of luck - hence the need for the link  </dug>
 
The reason I ask the above two questions is because I couldn?t find the 
following MEX elements you cited in the proposal:
 
i) GetWSDL (a short-hand for O1?)
<dug> look in section 6.1 of mex moap v6 </dug>
ii) mex:Reference (should be mex:MetadataReference?)
<dug>
mex:Reference and mex:Location are for refs that are outside of a 
mex:MetadataSection.
mex:MetadataReference and mex:MetadataLocation are for refs inside of a 
mex:MetadataSection
</dug>
Li  

From: Doug Davis [mailto:dug@us.ibm.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 2:06 PM
To: Li, Li (Li)
Cc: public-ws-resource-access@w3.org
Subject: Re: MOAP v2
 

Li, 
on #1:  yes I think that is supported.  One of the things that MOAP tried 
to get away from was the idea of having someone define what "application 
WSDL" is.  To some people WS-Eventing _is_ the application and to others 
its just a "feature".  We tried to avoid this discussion by letting the 
service decide this for itself.  So GetWSDL() will return a WSDL doc and 
whatever the service thinks should be returned, is returned, even if it 
looks pretty much like the WS-Eventing WSDL. 

on #2: can you elaborate on this use case - I'm not following it.   

thanks
-Doug
______________________________________________________
STSM |  Standards Architect  |  IBM Software Group
(919) 254-6905  |  IBM 444-6905  |  dug@us.ibm.com
The more I'm around some people, the more I like my dog. 


"Li, Li (Li)" <lli5@avaya.com> 
Sent by: public-ws-resource-access-request@w3.org 
03/02/2010 10:45 AM 


To
<public-ws-resource-access@w3.org> 
cc
 
Subject
Re: MOAP v2
 


 
 




Doug,

I have a question regarding the following paragraph in
wseventing-moap.doc in your MOAP version 2 proposals:

9 WS-Eventing Metadata
An endpoint MAY indicate that it supports WS-Eventing, or its features,
by including the WS-Eventing EventSource or SubscriptionManager Policy
assertions within its WSDL. By doing so the endpoint is indicating that
the corresponding WS-Eventing operations are supported by that endpoint
even though they do not explicitly appear in its WSDL (i.e. the
WS-Eventing operations do not appear in the WSDL that MAY be retrievable
by using a WS-MetadataExchange GetWSDL to that endpoint).


The paragraph seems to suggest that the endpoint has a WSDL that is
different from the WS-Eventing WSDL, and the policy assertions are
attached to that WSDL. I wonder if these policy assertions can also be
attached to the WS-Eventing WSDL instead. There are two use cases for
this:

1) The endpoint has ONLY WS-Eventing WSDL. It is an event source and
subscription manager, but has no other services.

2) The endpoint has some services other than WS-Eventing, but the
endpoint chooses to consolidate all policy related to WS-Eventing in the
WS-Eventing WSDL. 

My questions are: if these use cases are supported; 2) if so, how the
WSDLs look like.

Thanks,

Li

Received on Tuesday, 2 March 2010 20:09:07 UTC