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Re: Syntax proposal for Issue 7728

From: Gilbert Pilz <gilbert.pilz@oracle.com>
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 2010 09:58:38 -0800
Message-ID: <4B437DCE.9060807@oracle.com>
To: Doug Davis <dug@us.ibm.com>
CC: ashok.malhotra@oracle.com, "public-ws-resource-access@w3.org" <public-ws-resource-access@w3.org>
Fair enough, but these rules would not be  enforceable via XML schema 
validation (at least as far as my workman's understanding of XML schema 
sees it) and would thus require programmatic steps to validate any 
mex:Metadata document. So, in order to optimize the inclusion of 
metadata references in EPRs to reduce the number of wrapping elements, I 
will now be required to check that @Dialect, @Identifier, and @View 
don't appear as attributes of either mex:MetadatReference or 
mex:Location when they appear as children of mex:MetadataSection. 
Doesn't seem like a good trade-off to me.

- gp

On 1/5/2010 9:30 AM, Doug Davis wrote:
>
> We like rules  ;-)  The spec shouldn't allow for those attributes to 
> appear in both places and it depends on how its used.  Within a 
> mex:metadatasection - no attributes on the location.  Stand-alone, yes 
> mex:location has the attributes.
>
> thanks
> -Doug
> ______________________________________________________
> STSM |  Standards Architect  |  IBM Software Group
> (919) 254-6905  |  IBM 444-6905  |  dug@us.ibm.com
> The more I'm around some people, the more I like my dog.
>
>
> *Gilbert Pilz <gilbert.pilz@oracle.com>*
>
> 01/05/2010 12:11 PM
>
> 	
> To
> 	Doug Davis/Raleigh/IBM@IBMUS
> cc
> 	ashok.malhotra@oracle.com, "public-ws-resource-access@w3.org" 
> <public-ws-resource-access@w3.org>
> Subject
> 	Re: Syntax proposal for Issue 7728
>
>
>
> 	
>
>
>
>
>
> I *really* don't like the idea of adding @Dialect, @Identifier, *and* 
> @View (people keep forgetting this, but it is important) to 
> mex:MetadataReference/mex:Location because, as I said before, you then 
> have to deal with (i.e. either specify the semantics for or rule out 
> the existence of) situations in which some or all of these attributes 
> appear at both the mex:MetadataSection "level" and the 
> mex:MetadatReference/mex:Location level.
>
> For example, what does it mean if you have:
>
> <mex:Metadata>
>  <mex:MetadataSection Dialect="wsdl">
>    <mex:Location Dialect="xsd">
>
> or
>
> <mex:Metadata>
>  <mex:MetadataSection Dialect="wsdl">
>    <mex:MetadataSection Identifier="/someURI/">
>
> W/regards to "showing all 3", I think we need to be careful to 
> distinguish between what is allowed by WS-Addr extensibility and what 
> we (WS-MEX) actually define semantics for. (1) is allowed by WS-Addr, 
> but I don't see WS-MEX adding any value to this case.
>
> - gp
>
> On 12/29/2009 9:57 AM, Doug Davis wrote:
>
> I tend to agree.  Proposal #2 doesn't really add anything except a 
> useless wrapper.  Proposal #1b might not work though since not all 
> metadata under the wsa:Metadata element could be "WSDL" (or whatever 
> URI is in the Dialect attribute).  Proposal #1a, if adopted, should be 
> expanded to remove any ambiguity though.  Since there are three ways 
> that metadata can be represented we should show all 3:
> 1: Inlined
> <wsa:ReplyTo>
> <wsa:Address> _http://ibm.com_ <http://ibm.com/> </wsa:Address>
> <wsa:Metadata>
>    <wsdl:definitions ...> ... </wsdl:definitions>
> </wsa:Metadata>
> </wsa:ReplyTo>
>
> 2: URL Reference
> <wsa:ReplyTo>
> <wsa:Address> _http://ibm.com_ <http://ibm.com/> </wsa:Address>
> <wsa:Metadata>
>   <mex:Location Dialect="wsdl"> some-URI </mex:Location>
> </wsa:Metadata>
> </wsa:ReplyTo>
>
> 3: EPR Reference
> <wsa:ReplyTo>
> <wsa:Address> _http://ibm.com_ <http://ibm.com/> </wsa:Address>
> <wsa:Metadata>
>   <mex:MetadataReference Dialect="wsdl">
>      <wsa:Address> some-URI </wsa:Address>
>    </mex:MetadataReference>
> </wsa:Metadata>
> </wsa:ReplyTo>
>
> However, we should also make it clear that there IS a case where the 
> mex wrappers might appear - its the case where the metadata itself is 
> the MEX document.
> So, if doing a Transfer.Get() to some mex:MetadataReference returns:
>  <mex:Metadata>
>   <mex:MetadataSection Dialect="wsdl">
>      <wsdl:definitions> ... </wsdl:definitions>
>   </mex:MetadataSection>
> </mex:Metadata>
>
> Then when this metadata is inlined into an EPR it would appear like this:
> <wsa:ReplyTo>
> <wsa:Address> _http://ibm.com_ <http://ibm.com/> </wsa:Address>
> <wsa:Metadata>
>   <mex:Metadata>
>     <mex:MetadataSection Dialect="wsdl">
>        <wsdl:definitions> ... </wsdl:definitions>
>     </mex:MetadataSection>
>   </mex:Metadata>
>  </wsa:Metadata>
> </wsa:ReplyTo>
>
> and the above EPR is semantically (from a metadata perspective) 
> equivalent to:
> <wsa:ReplyTo>
> <wsa:Address> _http://ibm.com_ <http://ibm.com/> </wsa:Address>
> <wsa:Metadata>
>   <mex:MetadataReference Dialect="ws-mex">
>      <wsa:Address> some-URI </wsa:Address>
>    </mex:MetadataReference>
> </wsa:Metadata>
> </wsa:ReplyTo>
>
> Notice the Dialect is "ws-mex", not "wsdl".
>
> thanks
> -Doug
> ______________________________________________________
> STSM |  Standards Architect  |  IBM Software Group
> (919) 254-6905  |  IBM 444-6905  |  _dug@us.ibm.com_ 
> <mailto:dug@us.ibm.com>
> The more I'm around some people, the more I like my dog.
>
> *ashok malhotra **_<ashok.malhotra@oracle.com>_* 
> <mailto:ashok.malhotra@oracle.com>
> Sent by: _public-ws-resource-access-request@w3.org_ 
> <mailto:public-ws-resource-access-request@w3.org>
>
> 12/29/2009 11:50 AM
> Please respond to_
> __ashok.malhotra@oracle.com_ <mailto:ashok.malhotra@oracle.com>
>
> 	
> To
> 	_"public-ws-resource-access@w3.org"_ 
> <mailto:public-ws-resource-access@w3.org> 
> _<public-ws-resource-access@w3.org>_ 
> <mailto:public-ws-resource-access@w3.org>
> cc
> 	
> Subject
> 	Syntax proposal for Issue 7728
>
>
>
>
> 	
>
>
>
>
>
>
> This proposal suggests a simplified syntax for attaching Metadata to MEX
> GetMetadata.  The proposal adds detail as a followup to the first point
> in the original statement of this issue.  The second point has been
> addressed via other issues.
> We discussed this on our last telcon.  I'm following up with a specific
> proposal.
>
> The proposal for issue 6463 which we are close to accepting has three
> levels of wrapping for the metadata, viz:
>
> <wsa:ReplyTo>
> <wsa:Address> _http://ibm.com_ <http://ibm.com/> </wsa:Address>
> <wsa:Metadata>
>   <mex:Metadata>
>     <mex:MetadataSection Dialect="wsdl">
>       <mex:Location> _http://ibm.com?wsdl_ </mex:Location>
>     </mex:MetadataSection>
>   </mex:Metadata>
> </wsa:Metadata>
> </wsa:ReplyTo>
>
> We think that this is too many layers of wrapping and suggest that one
> or two layers be removed.
>
> Proposal 1
>
> Remove both the <mex:Matadata> and the <nex:MetadataSection> wrappers.  
> The above example would then look like:
>
> <wsa:ReplyTo>
> <wsa:Address> _http://ibm.com_ <http://ibm.com/> </wsa:Address>
> <wsa:Metadata>
>     <mex:Location Dialect="wsdl"> _http://ibm.com?wsdl_ </mex:Location>
> </wsa:Metadata>
> </wsa:ReplyTo>
>
> This syntax without any mex wrappers is already allowed by WS-Addressing.
>
> Note that the Dialect attribute has been moved to the <mex:Location>
> element.  The Identifier attribute could be moved similarly.  
> Alternatively, extension facilities could be used to add these
> attributes to the <was:Metadata> element.  The above example would then
> look like:
>
> <wsa:ReplyTo>
> <wsa:Address> _http://ibm.com_ <http://ibm.com/> </wsa:Address>
> <wsa:Metadata Dialect="wsdl">
>     <mex:Location> _http://ibm.com?wsdl_ </mex:Location>
> </wsa:Metadata>
> </wsa:ReplyTo>
>
> Proposal 2
>
> The above proposal does simplify the syntax but requires the Dialect and
> Identifier attributes to be made available on other elements.  If we
> keep the <mex: MetadataSection> this is not necessary although the
> proposal gets a bit more verbose:
>
> <wsa:ReplyTo>
> <wsa:Address> _http://ibm.com_ <http://ibm.com/> </wsa:Address>
> <wsa:Metadata>
>    <mex:MetadataSection Dialect="wsdl">
>       <mex:Location> _http://ibm.com?wsdl_ </mex:Location>
>    </mex:MetadataSection
> </wsa:Metadata>
> </wsa:ReplyTo>
>
> -- 
> All the best, Ashok
>
>


Received on Tuesday, 5 January 2010 21:06:45 GMT

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