W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-ws-resource-access@w3.org > October 2009

RE: Issue 7912 (Action 118): Proposal for "Consider using Dialect Identifier for implicit operation WSDL? "

From: Katy Warr <katy_warr@uk.ibm.com>
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 13:24:34 +0000
To: Ram Jeyaraman <Ram.Jeyaraman@microsoft.com>
Cc: Doug Davis <dug@us.ibm.com>, "public-ws-resource-access@w3.org" <public-ws-resource-access@w3.org>
Message-ID: <OF4903E1C1.543CB6DD-ON8025765C.00479112-8025765C.0049A915@uk.ibm.com>
Hi Ram,

Thank you for your comments.  I agree with the editorial changes - they 
make the text clearer.  However, I don't think we should remove this:

> "If the WSDL includes a wsdl:service element then the endpoint indicated 
within the WSDL MUST be used for the operations defined by this WSDL 
document."

The intention was to state something more than the WSDL semantics - namely 
that the feature's WSDL may indicate that the feature is supported at a 
different endpoint.  Perhaps this isn't clear and it could be re-written 
like this?:

> "If a Feature WSDL is abstract, then the endpoint of the Endpoint WSDL 
MUST be used for the feature operations. If a Feature WSDL defines a 
concrete endpoint, then this endpoint MUST be used for the feature 
operations."

On a separate point, I also noticed that the following text in brackets 
below is incorrect as it also requires @Identifier=tns.   I think we 
should consider simply removing it in order to simplify the text.

> ...  (i.e. the WSDL that MAY be retrievable by using a 
WS-MetadataExchange GetMetadata with a Dialect IRI of 
http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/wsdl/). 

It is quite confusing to see where we are with the proposal, so below is 
an updated proposal which (I think) reflects your suggested changes and my 
suggested amendments below.  The changes from the first proposal are 
highlighted.

Best regards 
Katy

Proposal Number 2
==============
1) WS-Transfer (and equivalent in other specs)   

Keep: 
- - - - - 
An endpoint MAY indicate that it supports WS-Transfer, or its features, by 
including the WS-Transfer Policy assertion within its WSDL. By doing so 
the endpoint is indicating that the corresponding WS-Transfer operations 
are supported by that endpoint even though they do not explicitly appear 
in its WSDL.

But drop: 
- - - - - - - - 
(i.e. the WSDL that MAY be retrievable by using a WS-MetadataExchange 
GetMetadata with a Dialect IRI of http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/wsdl/). 
An endpoint MAY choose to expose the WS-Transfer WSDL by using the 
following WS-MetadataExchange Dialect: 

Dialect IRI                                                               
            @Identifier value 
======================================================== 
http://www.w3.org/2009/02/ws-tra/TransferWSDL  Not defined 

The WS-Transfer WSDL can be annotated to indicate any endpoint specific 
metadata that might be needed by clients interacting with this service. 
For example, the WSDL MAY have policy assertions that indicate a 
particular security mechanism used to protect the WS-Transfer operations 
supported by this endpoint. 

2) To the end of the 'keep' part above, 
add: 
 - - - - 
The WS-Transfer WSDL containing the operations indicated by the 
TransferResource Assertion MAY be exposed as described in 
WS-MetadataExchange [WS-Mex] section 9 . This WS-Transfer WSDL can be 
annotated to indicate any endpoint specific metadata that might be needed 
by clients interacting with this service. For example, the WSDL MAY have 
policy assertions that indicate a particular security mechanism used to 
protect the WS-Transfer operations supported by this endpoint. 

3)  WS-MetadataExchange 

Add section 9 : 
- - - - - - - - - - - 

9. Exposing WSDL for Operations Implicitly Defined by a Policy Assertion 

An endpoint MAY indicate that it supports a specific feature by including 
the feature?s policy assertion within its WSDL. By doing so, the endpoint 
is indicating that corresponding operations (if any) are supported by that 
endpoint even though they do not explicitly appear in its WSDL.  An 
example of this is an endpoint that indicates the use of WS-Transfer 
[WS-Transfer] by the use of the wstrp:TransferResource WS-Policy 
[WS-Policy] assertion.

An endpoint MAY choose to expose the WSDL of the policy defined feature by 
using the http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/wsdl/ dialect and the dialect 
identifier of the target namespace of the feature.   

Dialect IRI                                                      @ 
Identifier value                                                           
                        Metadata returned 
==================================================================================================== 

http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/wsdl/        target namespace of endpoint       
                                                   Endpoint WSDL 
http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/wsdl/        target namespace of feature 
supported by the endpoint         Feature WSDL 

The Feature WSDL can be annotated to indicate any endpoint specific 
metadata that might be needed by clients interacting with this service. 
For example, the WSDL MAY have policy assertions that indicate a 
particular security mechanism used to protect the feature's operations 
supported by this endpoint.  If a Feature WSDL is abstract, then the 
endpoint of the Endpoint WSDL MUST be used for the feature operations. If 
a Feature WSDL defines a concrete endpoint, then this endpoint MUST be 
used for the feature operations.




From:
Ram Jeyaraman <Ram.Jeyaraman@microsoft.com>
To:
Katy Warr/UK/IBM@IBMGB
Cc:
Doug Davis <dug@us.ibm.com>, "public-ws-resource-access@w3.org" 
<public-ws-resource-access@w3.org>
Date:
26/10/2009 22:30
Subject:
RE: Issue 7912 (Action 118): Proposal for "Consider using Dialect 
Identifier  for implicit operation WSDL? "



Hi Katy,
 
I have a few editorial comments.
 
  An endpoint MAY indicate support for a specific feature (e.g. a 
specification) and the corresponding feature operations by inclusion of a 
policy  assertion within its WSDL.  In such a case, the feature's 
operations do not explicitly appear in the endpoint's WSDL.
 
For consistency across all three parts of the proposal, I suggest 
rephrasing the above as follows:
 
?An endpoint MAY indicate that it supports a specific feature by including 
the feature?s policy assertion within its WSDL. By doing so, the endpoint 
is indicating that corresponding operations (if any) are supported by that 
endpoint even though they do not explicitly appear in its WSDL?.
 
  An example of this is an endpoint indicating its conformation to the 
WS-Transfer [WS-Transfer] definition
 
s/an endpoint indicating its conformation to the WS-Transfer/an endpoint 
that indicates the use of WS-Transfer/
 
  If the WSDL includes a wsdl:service element then the endpoint indicated 
within the WSDL MUST be used for the operations defined by this WSDL 
document.
 
Since this text restates the normal WSDL semantics, I suggest removing 
this.
 
Thanks.
 
From: public-ws-resource-access-request@w3.org [
mailto:public-ws-resource-access-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Katy Warr
Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 6:27 AM
To: public-ws-resource-access@w3.org
Cc: Doug Davis
Subject: Issue 7912 (Action 118): Proposal for "Consider using Dialect 
Identifier for implicit operation WSDL? "
 

Further to the last meeting, here is a complete proposal for 
http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=7912 for the action (
http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/ra/tracker/actions/118) against Doug and me. 

1) WS-Transfer (and equivalent in other specs)   

Keep: 
- - - - - 
An endpoint MAY indicate that it supports WS-Transfer, or its features, by 
including the WS-Transfer Policy assertion within its WSDL. By doing so 
the endpoint is indicating that the corresponding WS-Transfer operations 
are supported by that endpoint even though they do not explicitly appear 
in its WSDL (i.e. the WSDL that MAY be retrievable by using a 
WS-MetadataExchange GetMetadata with a Dialect IRI of 
http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/wsdl/). 

But drop: 
- - - - - - - - 
An endpoint MAY choose to expose the WS-Transfer WSDL by using the 
following WS-MetadataExchange Dialect: 

Dialect IRI            @Identifier value 
======================================================== 
http://www.w3.org/2009/02/ws-tra/TransferWSDL  Not defined 

The WS-Transfer WSDL can be annotated to indicate any endpoint specific 
metadata that might be needed by clients interacting with this service. 
For example, the WSDL MAY have policy assertions that indicate a 
particular security mechanism used to protect the WS-Transfer operations 
supported by this endpoint. 


2) To the end of the 'keep' part above, 

add: 
 - - - - 
The WS-Transfer WSDL containing the operations indicated by the 
TransferResource Assertion MAY be exposed as described in 
WS-MetadataExchange [WS-Mex] section 9 . This WS-Transfer WSDL can be 
annotated to indicate any endpoint specific metadata that might be needed 
by clients interacting with this service. For example, the WSDL MAY have 
policy assertions that indicate a particular security mechanism used to 
protect the WS-Transfer operations supported by this endpoint. 


3)  WS-MetadataExchange 

Add section 9 : 
- - - - - - - - - - - 

9. Exposing WSDL for Operations Implicitly Defined by a Policy Assertion 

An endpoint MAY indicate support for a specific feature (e.g. a 
specification) and the corresponding feature operations by inclusion of a 
policy  assertion within its WSDL.  In such a case, the feature's 
operations do not explicitly appear in the endpoint's WSDL.  An example of 
this is an endpoint indicating its conformation to the WS-Transfer 
[WS-Transfer] definition of a Transfer Resource by the use of the 
wstrp:TransferResource WS-Policy [WS-Policy] assertion. 

An endpoint MAY choose to expose the WSDL of the policy defined feature by 
using the http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/wsdl/ dialect and the dialect 
identifier of the target namespace of the feature.   

Dialect IRI                                                      @ 
Identifier value                         Metadata returned 
==================================================================================================== 

http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/wsdl/        target namespace of endpoint       
                              Endpoint WSDL 
http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/wsdl/        target namespace of feature 
supported by the endpoint         Feature WSDL 

The Feature WSDL can be annotated to indicate any endpoint specific 
metadata that might be needed by clients interacting with this service. 
For example, the WSDL MAY have policy assertions that indicate a 
particular security mechanism used to protect the feature's operations 
supported by this endpoint.  If the WSDL includes a wsdl:service element 
then the endpoint indicated within the WSDL MUST be used for the 
operations defined by this WSDL document. 



 
Unless stated otherwise above:
IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 
741598. 
Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU 












Unless stated otherwise above:
IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 
741598. 
Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU
Received on Tuesday, 27 October 2009 13:25:40 GMT

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.2.0+W3C-0.50 : Saturday, 18 December 2010 18:18:14 GMT