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Re: Issue 6403: Enumertion Policy - some things for us to consider

From: Katy Warr <katy_warr@uk.ibm.com>
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 10:26:04 +0100
To: Christopher B Ferris <chrisfer@us.ibm.com>
Cc: Gilbert Pilz <gilbert.pilz@oracle.com>, public-ws-resource-access@w3.org, public-ws-resource-access-request@w3.org
Message-ID: <OFA8BBE7BC.2FE0A34E-ON802575A0.00318839-802575A0.0033D1BB@uk.ibm.com>
Gil 

<gp>Maybe I'm missing the context, but (1) seems wrong to me (BTW - I'm 
assuming you meant "wsp:Optional=true"). Do we really want to constrain an 
endpoint to the operations defined in WS-Enum and no others? Why would we 
want to do that?</gp>

In the example, I meant  "wsp:Optional=false", hence there would be only 
one policy alternative indicating that all communications with this 
endpoint MUST be enumeration. The point is exactly what you say: why would 
anyone use wsenp:Enumeration without the optional flag as it would be too 
restrictive?  I think that you would always want to add 
"wsp:Optional=true" to this assertion to provide the 2 alternatives as 
Chris says.

We discussed this on the yesterday's call (I think you weren't on the call 
at the time).  Doug pointed out that the key point of this issue was to 
provide a way of specifying filter capabilities for enumeration and a 
starting point for a pattern to express capabilities.  The wider, more 
general discussions regarding indicating support for implicit operations 
and policy are covered in a couple of other issues [1] and (in order to 
move forward) we agreed to discuss these aspects in the context of these 
other issues.

Thanks
Katy

[1] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6694, 
http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6721




From:
Christopher B Ferris <chrisfer@us.ibm.com>
To:
Gilbert Pilz <gilbert.pilz@oracle.com>
Cc:
Katy Warr/UK/IBM@IBMGB, public-ws-resource-access@w3.org, 
public-ws-resource-access-request@w3.org
Date:
22/04/2009 04:13
Subject:
Re: Issue 6403: Enumertion Policy - some things for us to consider



wsp:Optional doesn't mean, "optional" it means that there are two 
alternatives, one with and one without the 
assertion containing the wsp:Optional attribute. I guess I am missing the 
point of what wsp:Optional has to 
do with there being some operations with and some without 
wsenp:Enumeration. 

Cheers,

Christopher Ferris
IBM Distinguished Engineer, CTO Industry Standards
IBM Software Group, Standards Strategy
email: chrisfer@us.ibm.com
blog: http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/blogs/page/chrisferris
phone: +1 508 234 2986 




From: 
Gilbert Pilz <gilbert.pilz@oracle.com> 
To: 
Katy Warr <katy_warr@uk.ibm.com> 
Cc: 
public-ws-resource-access@w3.org 
Date: 
04/21/2009 07:57 PM 
Subject: 
Re: Issue 6403: Enumertion Policy - some things for us to consider 
Sent by: 
public-ws-resource-access-request@w3.org




Maybe I'm missing the context, but (1) seems wrong to me (BTW - I'm 
assuming you meant "wsp:Optional=true"). Do we really want to constrain an 
endpoint to the operations defined in WS-Enum and no others? Why would we 
want to do that?

- gp

Katy Warr wrote: 

Just wondering whether we need to consider the following in the context of 
http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6403 proposal?: 

1) The wsenp:WSEnumeration policy indicates that WS-Enumeration MUST be 
used when communicating with this endpoint. I think this is shorthand for 
defining the data source enumeration operations at the endpoint (i.e. 
enumerate, pull, renew, getstatus and release).   
Because of the 'MUST', would it therefore be an error to attach 
wsenp:Ennumeration policy wsp:Optional=FALSE to an endpoint if that 
endpoint also supported other (non-enum) operations? 

2) We should consider whether an endpoint must advertise all the filter 
dialects that it supports using: 
 <x:FilterDialect xmlns:x="xs:anyURI" wsp:Optional="true"/> 
If we don't mandate that all supported filter dialects are advertised in 
the policy, do we need a mechanism for an enumeration endpoint to indicate 
that it does not support filtering at all (i.e. including a filter on the 
enumerate verb will return wesn:FilteringNotSupported)? 

Thanks, 
Katy



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Unless stated otherwise above:
IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 
741598. 
Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU
Received on Wednesday, 22 April 2009 09:26:51 UTC

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