RE: [Bug 6692] New: Remove Mode from the specification

Devon,
 please see 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-resource-access/2009Apr/0016.html 
 - Mode is broken from a composibility and scalability perspective.
Also, as mentioned by Gil - the proposal does not remove ANY feature from 
WS-Eventing - its just a change to what the XML in the subscribe looks 
like - and this is done to align it with the rest of the WS-* stack - 
which, in the end, is a good thing.

thanks
-Doug
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"Kemp, Devon" <Devon.Kemp@cda.canon.com> 
Sent by: public-ws-resource-access-request@w3.org
04/17/2009 04:05 PM

To
<public-ws-resource-access@w3.org>
cc

Subject
RE: [Bug 6692] New: Remove Mode from the specification






Greetings?
 
Canon is also very concerned about the proposal to remove the Delivery 
Mode attribute, and defined delivery modes, from the WS-Eventing 
specification. 
 
1)    Canon has several products currently in the market that contain 
implementations of DPWS, which relies on the Push Mode of event delivery. 
Should the WS-Eventing specification remove the delivery mode, our 
investment in DPWS will be at risk.
2)    It appears that you?re not requiring any specific type of delivery 
mode. We have learned that in order to assure interoperability, there must 
be at least one defined type of delivery modes. Push mode has been used in 
several applications of DPWS and has proved (at least to us) to be an easy 
to implement, common denominator, for eventing messages.
3)    The lack of a formal extension point (?Delivery Mode?) prevents easy 
adoption by other specifications in the industry, reducing WS-Eventing?s 
usability.
4)    Nothing appears to be gained by the removal of the Delivery Mode 
attribute. (Don?t fix something that isn?t broken.)
 
We ask that you please reconsider your proposal to remove the Delivery 
Mode attribute, and keep this in the WS-Eventing specification.
 
Best Regards,
-Devon Kemp
Canon
 
 
 
From: public-ws-resource-access-request@w3.org 
[mailto:public-ws-resource-access-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Asir 
Vedamuthu
Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2009 7:59 PM
To: public-ws-resource-access@w3.org
Subject: RE: [Bug 6692] New: Remove Mode from the specification
 
Last week, on the WG conference call, I mentioned that we will provide 
some clarity on the concept of delivery mode (in WS-Eventing) and related 
use cases.
 
Delivery mode [1] provides a subscriber with a mechanism to specify the 
means by which an event is delivered. Delivery mode is represented as a 
URI in a Subscribe message [2]. The semantics indicated by a delivery mode 
are:
 
1)  Rules for the delivery of events
a)  Semantics and lifecycle of a Notification delivery
b)  Message Exchange Pattern used (One-way, Request-Response, etc.) and 
how the delivery mode binds to those Message Exchange Patterns
c)  Format of a response (if any)
d)  Configuration parameters or context data (if any) to support the 
Message Exchange Pattern
e)  Rules for the delivery or other disposition of faults generated during 
a Notification delivery
2)  Delivery mode specific protocol information (if any) to guarantee 
interop
3)  Supported delivery formats.
 
Some portion of the above semantics are captured by an EPR, in a 
machine-readable form, but certainly not all. So, there is value added by 
a formal mechanism to indicate a delivery mode. 
 
The delivery mode is an extension point in WS-Eventing. The WS-Eventing 
specification defines a single built-in delivery mode, Push Mode. Other 
delivery modes may be important for external groups or other W3C Working 
Groups and are delegated to those groups. This is similar to SOAP 
Bindings. The W3C XML Protocol WG defined SOAP Protocol Binding Framework 
as an extension point and a concrete binding, SOAP HTTP Binding (is also 
identified using a URI [3]). Other groups defined SOAP bindings such as 
SOAP-over-JMS and SOAP-over-UDP.
 
The DMTF WS-Management WG defined three new delivery modes [4] and these 
delivery modes have been widely adopted.
 
Furthermore, based on the WS-RA WG charter [5], the WG deliverables need 
to satisfy the following requirements as well:
 
1)  Charter scope - ?Mechanisms to allow a subscriber to specify the means 
by which an event is delivered and the definition of a push-based delivery 
mode?.
2)  Charter scope ? ?In order to avoid disrupting the interoperability of 
existing implementations, WS-MetadataExchange, WS-Transfer, WS-Eventing 
and WS-Enumeration should remain compatible with protocols and formats 
that depend on them, and offer a smooth migration path from the submission 
to the standard.? We are aware of two dependant protocols ? DPWS [6] (uses 
Push Mode) and WS-Management [4] (uses Push Mode and, as mentioned before, 
defines three new delivery modes).
 
[1] http://www.w3.org/Submission/WS-Eventing/#Delivery_Modes 
[2] http://www.w3.org/Submission/WS-Eventing/#Subscribe 
[3] http://www.w3.org/TR/2003/REC-soap12-part2-20030624/#http-bindname 
[4] http://www.dmtf.org/standards/published_documents/DSP0226.pdf - 
Section 7
[5] http://www.w3..org/2008/11/ws-ra-charter.html#scope
[6] http://specs.xmlsoap.org/ws/2006/02/devprof/ 
 
We hope this helps. 
 
Regards,
 
Asir S Vedamuthu
Microsoft Corporation
 
-----Original Message-----
From: public-ws-resource-access-notifications-request@w3.org 
[mailto:public-ws-resource-access-notifications-request@w3.org] On Behalf 
Of bugzilla@wiggum.w3.org
Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 8:37 AM
To: public-ws-resource-access-notifications@w3.org
Subject: [Bug 6692] New: Remove Mode from the specification
 
http://www.w3..org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6692
 
           Summary: Remove Mode from the specification
           Product: WS-Resource Access
           Version: CR
          Platform: PC
        OS/Version: All
            Status: NEW
          Severity: major
          Priority: P2
         Component: Eventing
        AssignedTo: public-ws-resource-access-notifications@w3.org
        ReportedBy: david.Snelling@UK.Fujitsu.com
         QAContact: public-ws-resource-access-notifications@w3.org
 
 
The concept of Mode is redundant in the current version of the 
specification.
All events can be thought of as being delivered. There is no actual 
definition
of "Push Mode" and no other recommended modes. We even have a 
MakeConnection
strategy to allow clients behind NATs to fetch events. Likewise, 
strategies for
complex queuing and distribution are supportable without adding additional
modes and are outside the scope of this specification.
 
Proposal: Remove /s:Envelope/s:Body/*/wse:Delivery/@Mode from the 
specification
and all references to Push Mode. A simple explanation of the delivery idea 
and
a pointer to some of the techniques available will be needed.
 
 
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Received on Monday, 20 April 2009 23:56:37 UTC