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RE: Proposed solution for Issue 4141

From: Asir Vedamuthu <asirveda@microsoft.com>
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 23:46:20 -0800
Message-ID: <1E0F0378382054439F14D5450650478F0BEC1E28@RED-MSG-42.redmond.corp.microsoft.com>
To: "Yalcinalp, Umit" <umit.yalcinalp@sap.com>, Prasad Yendluri <prasad.yendluri@webmethods.com>, <public-ws-policy@w3.org>

We have no objections to use simple text in the Guidelines document. The minimum needed to resolve issue 3985 is: text in Section 4.4.1 'Assertions with Parameters' [1] (Guidelines document) should be in sync with the normative material in the Framework document.

[1] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2006/ws/policy/ws-policy-guidelines.html?rev=1.17&content-type=text/html;%20charset=utf-8&only_with_tag=Editors-Draft-08-January-2007#parameterized-assertions 

Regards,
 
Asir S Vedamuthu
Microsoft Corporation


-----Original Message-----
From: Yalcinalp, Umit [mailto:umit.yalcinalp@sap.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 11:47 AM
To: Asir Vedamuthu; Prasad Yendluri; public-ws-policy@w3.org
Subject: RE: Proposed solution for Issue 4141

IMO, Prasad has a valid point and I agree with your suggestion to have a simpler text in the Primer, but this suggestion contradicts the proposal made by Microsoft for the Guidelines document in not repeating the content of the specification and just referring to the specification itself in [Issue 3985]. 

We need to treat both the Primer and the Guidelines document in the same manner. Either BOTH documents restate the spec or both refer to the specification. 

However, it seems to me that we do not want to hold 4141 for the primer and guidelines if our goal is to fix the LC issues first.  

Prasad: Could you open an issue for Primer on this? We should fix both the primer and the 3985 at the same time.

--umit
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Asir Vedamuthu [mailto:asirveda@microsoft.com] 
> Sent: Tuesday, Jan 09, 2007 8:01 AM
> To: Prasad Yendluri; Yalcinalp, Umit; public-ws-policy@w3.org
> Subject: RE: Proposed solution for Issue 4141
> 
> >{The XML Infoset of a policy assertion MAY 
> >contain a non-empty [attributes] property 
> >and/or a non-empty [children] property. 
> >Such properties, excluding Attribute and 
> >Element Information Items from the WS-Policy 
> >language XML namespace name, are policy 
> >assertion parameters and MAY be used to 
> >parameterize the behavior indicated by the assertion. }
> 
> Sounds okay to me.
> 
> >In the XML representation, the child elements 
> >and attributes of an assertion excluding Attribute 
> >and Element Information Items from the WS-Policy 
> >language XML namespace name are the assertion 
> >parameters. For example @wsp:Optional and 
> >@wsp:Ignorable are not assertion parameters
> 
> I suggest that we use simple words in the Primer. That is,
> 
> s/Attribute and Element Information Items from the WS-Policy 
> language XML namespace name/child elements and attributes 
> from the policy language XML namespace name/
> 
> >Guidelines Doc:
> >2.2 Section 4.4.1 Assertions with Parameters 1t paragraph
> 
> There is a related open issue, 3985 [1].
> 
> [1] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3985 
> 
> Regards,
>  
> Asir S Vedamuthu
> Microsoft Corporation
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: public-ws-policy-request@w3.org 
> [mailto:public-ws-policy-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Prasad Yendluri
> Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 12:49 PM
> To: Yalcinalp, Umit; public-ws-policy@w3.org
> Subject: RE: Proposed solution for Issue 4141
> 
> Hi Umit, Dan et al,
> 
> 1. I like to suggest a small amendment. Change "policy 
> language XML namespace name" to "WS-Policy language XML 
> namespace name". I think it would be good to be clear here. 
> The revised text as follows:
> {The XML Infoset of a policy assertion MAY contain a 
> non-empty [attributes] property and/or a non-empty [children] 
> property. Such properties, excluding Attribute and Element 
> Information Items from the WS-Policy language XML namespace 
> name, are policy assertion parameters and MAY be used to 
> parameterize the behavior indicated by the assertion. }
> 2. This change needs to be propagated to the Primer and 
> Guidelines documents also.
> Instead of opening a new issue for those documents to address 
> the same problem, I suggest the following changes in them:
> 
> Primer:
> 
> 2.1 In section "3.3 Policy Data Model", in 3rd paragraph 
> under Figure 3.1 change the last sentence as follows:
> 
>             In the XML representation, the child elements and 
> attributes of an assertion excluding Attribute and Element 
> Information Items from the WS-Policy language XML namespace 
> name are the assertion parameters. For example @wsp:Optional 
> and @wsp:Ignorable are not assertion parameters.
> 
> Guidelines Doc:
> 2.2 Section 4.4.1 Assertions with Parameters 1t paragraph says
> "Note that parameters of assertions include the following:
> * Complex elements with element children that cannot be 
> policy assertions. 
> * Elements that have attributes "
>      This does not account for Attributes on the assertions 
> themselves. I suggest adding a new1st bullet that states, 
> "Attribute Information Items on the assertions, excluding the 
> Attribute Information Items from the WS-Policy language XML 
> namespace name". 
> Thanks.
> 
> Prasad
> ________________________________________
> From: public-ws-policy-request@w3.org 
> [mailto:public-ws-policy-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Yalcinalp, Umit
> Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 12:03 PM
> To: public-ws-policy@w3.org
> Subject: Proposed solution for Issue 4141
> 
> Dan and I had an action item [1] to resolve [Issue4141]. Here 
> is the suggested wording that resolves the issue which amends 
> the proposed text in [3]: 
> {The XML Infoset of a policy assertion MAY contain a 
> non-empty [attributes] property and/or a non-empty [children] 
> property. Such properties, excluding Attribute and Element 
> Information Items from the policy language XML namespace 
> name, are policy assertion parameters and MAY be used to 
> parameterize the behavior indicated by the assertion. }
> [1] http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/wspolicy/actions/180 
> [2] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=4141 
> [3] 
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-policy/2007Jan/0
> 013.html 
> ---------------------- 
> Dr. Umit Yalcinalp 
> Research Scientist 
> SAP Labs, LLC 
> Email: umit.yalcinalp@sap.com Tel: (650) 320-3095 
> SDN: https://www.sdn.sap.com/irj/sdn/weblogs?blog=/pub/u/36238 
> -------- 
> 
Received on Wednesday, 10 January 2007 07:47:05 GMT

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