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Re: [NEW ISSUE] 4103 Questionable use of Contoso Ltd in Primer

From: Fabian Ritzmann <Fabian.Ritzmann@Sun.COM>
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2007 14:36:19 +0200
To: Paul Cotton <Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com>
Cc: "Yalcinalp, Umit" <umit.yalcinalp@sap.com>, Felix Sasaki <fsasaki@w3.org>, David Orchard <dorchard@bea.com>, Christopher B Ferris <chrisfer@us.ibm.com>, "public-ws-policy@w3.org" <public-ws-policy@w3.org>
Message-id: <459A51C3.70009@Sun.COM>

Thanks Paul. Obviously, I'm not an expert in legal matters, and I don't 
have a preference for either company name. I'll still try to explain 
what I was saying in more detail.

example.com is a reserved DNS name and it is not possible for anybody to 
acquire that DNS name. This is purely within the realms of the DNS 
system and their administrative bodies however. It does not prevent 
anybody from e.g. registering a trademark "example.com" with the US 
Patent and Trademark Office (or with any similar office in any other 
country on this planet). That means changing all occurrences of 
"Contoso" to "Example.com" would not protect the W3C from being sued for 
using somebody's trademark. And trademarks must be registered in every 
country where they shall be protected, i.e. a registration with the US 
Trademark Office doesn't protect the W3C from being sued in any other 
jurisdiction outside the US.

Fabian


Paul Cotton wrote:
> We know that example.com is used in URIs in many other specs.  But the Primer uses "Contoso" as a company name and Chris's original proposal is to:
>
>   
>> Change all occurances of "Contoso" and/or "Contoso Ltd." to "Example.com"
>>     
>
> Using "Example.com" as a business name is completely different from using the string as a domain name.
>
> /paulc
>
> Paul Cotton, Microsoft Canada
> 17 Eleanor Drive, Ottawa, Ontario K2E 6A3
> Tel: (613) 225-5445 Fax: (425) 936-7329
> mailto:Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com
>
>
>
>
>
>   
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: public-ws-policy-request@w3.org [mailto:public-ws-policy-
>> request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Yalcinalp, Umit
>> Sent: December 22, 2006 7:04 PM
>> To: Felix Sasaki; Paul Cotton
>> Cc: David Orchard; Fabian Ritzmann; Christopher B Ferris; public-ws-
>> policy@w3.org
>> Subject: RE: [NEW ISSUE] 4103 Questionable use of Contoso Ltd in Primer
>>
>>
>> Example.com is widely used in w3c specs/docs already. Surely, the use of
>> it is not introducing a new constraint and/or problem for w3c.
>>
>> --umit
>>
>>
>>     
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: public-ws-policy-request@w3.org
>>> [mailto:public-ws-policy-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Felix Sasaki
>>> Sent: Thursday, Dec 21, 2006 6:26 PM
>>> To: Paul Cotton
>>> Cc: David Orchard; Fabian Ritzmann; Christopher B Ferris;
>>> public-ws-policy@w3.org
>>> Subject: Re: [NEW ISSUE] 4103 Questionable use of Contoso Ltd
>>> in Primer
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc2606.txt describes the
>>> reserved domain
>>> name. I think this issue could be resolved by asking ICANN if they
>>> follow this RFC in their registration policy and if their
>>> recommend that
>>> to local registries as well. If you agree with this approach, I could
>>> take an AI and bring the question to our ICANN liaison .
>>>
>>> Felix
>>>
>>> Paul Cotton wrote:
>>>       
>>>> But Fabian's point is that someone could actually register
>>>>         
>>> the company name "Example.com" with their local government
>>> name registry.  Having that name reserved in DNS space does
>>> not stop someone from using it in another space.
>>>       
>>>> /paulc
>>>>
>>>> Paul Cotton, Microsoft Canada
>>>> 17 Eleanor Drive, Ottawa, Ontario K2E 6A3
>>>> Tel: (613) 225-5445 Fax: (425) 936-7329
>>>> mailto:Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: public-ws-policy-request@w3.org [mailto:public-ws-policy-
>>>>> request@w3.org] On Behalf Of David Orchard
>>>>> Sent: December 21, 2006 2:36 PM
>>>>> To: Fabian Ritzmann; Christopher B Ferris
>>>>> Cc: public-ws-policy@w3.org
>>>>> Subject: RE: [NEW ISSUE] 4103 Questionable use of Contoso
>>>>>           
>>> Ltd in Primer
>>>       
>>>>> Example.com is explicitly reserved in DNS for examples
>>>>>           
>>> like this and
>>>       
>>>>> cannot be registered.  That's why everybody uses it.  And
>>>>>           
>>> what a great
>>>       
>>>>> idea and foresight that was on their part..
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Dave
>>>>>
>>>>>           
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: public-ws-policy-request@w3.org
>>>>>> [mailto:public-ws-policy-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>>>             
>>> Fabian Ritzmann
>>>       
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2006 10:05 AM
>>>>>> To: Christopher B Ferris
>>>>>> Cc: public-ws-policy@w3.org
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [NEW ISSUE] 4103 Questionable use of Contoso Ltd
>>>>>> in Primer
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> While example.com is a reserved domain name, isn't there
>>>>>> still a chance that somebody registers a company Example.com
>>>>>> and sues W3C for trademark infringement [1]?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Contoso is a company name registered by Microsoft:
>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fictitious_company_names_
>>>>>> used_by_Microsoft
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ideally, the W3C would register a company name for similar
>>>>>> uses in all countries where they don't want to be sued for
>>>>>> trademark or similar infringements...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Fabian
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Christopher B Ferris wrote:
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=4103
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Title: Questionable use of fictitious corp. name "Contoso Ltd."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Description: The Primer uses a fictitious corporation
>>>>>>>               
>>> name, Contoso
>>>       
>>>>>>> Ltd., throughout the Primer in its running example. It
>>>>>>>               
>>> isn't clear
>>>       
>>>>>>> that use of such a fictitious name, without w3c
>>>>>>>               
>>> copyright/trademark
>>>       
>>>>>>> ownership, is advisable.
>>>>>>> Should a company be incorporated with that name, then the
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>> Policy 1.5
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>> primer would be in essence providing it with free advertising...
>>>>>>> Worse, the company might sue the W3C for copyright/trademark
>>>>>>> infringement.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Justification: see description
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Proposed Resolution: Change all occurances of "Contoso" and/or
>>>>>>> "Contoso Ltd."
>>>>>>> to "Example.com" and change all "real.contoso.com" domain
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>> references
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>> to "example.com".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Christopher Ferris
>>>>>>> STSM, Software Group Standards Strategy
>>>>>>> email: chrisfer@us.ibm.com
>>>>>>> blog: http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/blogs/page/chrisferris
>>>>>>> phone: +1 508 377 9295
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Fabian Ritzmann
>>>>>> Sun Microsystems, Inc.
>>>>>> Stella Business Park             Phone +358-9-525 562 96
>>>>>> Lars Sonckin kaari 12            Fax   +358-9-525 562 52
>>>>>> 02600 Espoo                      Email Fabian.Ritzmann@Sun.COM
>>>>>> Finland
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             
Received on Tuesday, 2 January 2007 12:36:28 GMT

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