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RE: Issue 4332: WSDL WG comment 2

From: Yalcinalp, Umit <umit.yalcinalp@sap.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 16:09:36 -0800
Message-ID: <2BA6015847F82645A9BB31C7F9D64165037C6C3A@uspale20.pal.sap.corp>
To: "David Orchard" <dorchard@bea.com>, "Ashok Malhotra" <ashok.malhotra@oracle.com>, <public-ws-policy@w3.org>
Wouldn't the limitation to subjects defined by ws-policy leave the
utility of the identifiers for elements/type decls somewhat ambigious
from the WS-Policy perspective anyway? 
 
--umit
 


________________________________

	From: David Orchard [mailto:dorchard@bea.com] 
	Sent: Wednesday, Feb 21, 2007 4:03 PM
	To: Yalcinalp, Umit; Ashok Malhotra; public-ws-policy@w3.org
	Subject: RE: Issue 4332: WSDL WG comment 2
	
	
	There was never agreement to remove them.  We agreed that we
would provide a document that faithfully captured identifiers for all
WSDL 1.1 elements and then scope the policy attachment using wsdl 1.1
EIs to just the subjects defined by ws-policy.  
	 
	Cheers,
	Dave


________________________________

		From: Yalcinalp, Umit [mailto:umit.yalcinalp@sap.com] 
		Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 3:51 PM
		To: Ashok Malhotra; public-ws-policy@w3.org
		Cc: David Orchard
		Subject: RE: Issue 4332: WSDL WG comment 2
		
		
		I have the recollection of agreeing NOT to include
element/type decls. Thus, I am somewhat confused as to why we still have
them in the document. 
		
		Shortly, +1 to remove them. 
		 
		--umit
		 
		 

________________________________

			From: public-ws-policy-request@w3.org
[mailto:public-ws-policy-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Ashok Malhotra
			Sent: Wednesday, Feb 21, 2007 3:38 PM
			To: public-ws-policy@w3.org
			Cc: dorchard@bea.com
			Subject: RE: Issue 4332: WSDL WG comment 2
			
			

			I do not see a usecase for referring to element
declarations and type definitions in a WSDL 1.1 document from outside
the document.

			So, I'm happy to see them removed.

			 

			DaveO, perhaps you had a reason for including
these?  If so, pray tell.

			 

			All the best, Ashok 

			
________________________________


			From: public-ws-policy-request@w3.org
[mailto:public-ws-policy-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Paul Cotton
			Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 7:09 PM
			To: public-ws-policy@w3.org
			Subject: Issue 4332: WSDL WG comment 2

			 

	
http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=4332

			 

			The inclusion of identifiers for element
declarations and type definitions (which are not WSDL 1.1 elements)
seems inappropriate in this spec.  The presence of schema imports and
includes makes associating type definitions with a particular WSDL
document, and thus with a particular targetNamespace, problematic.
These identifiers don't seem to be required by WS-Policy Attachment.  We
recommend removing them.  If these identifiers remain, a number of
issues related to them should be addressed, including:

			a.   How imports and includes affect them.  Are
only in-lined schema elements considered?  Only elements in a schema
targetNamespace that is the same as the WSDL targetNamespace?  If not,
which ones?

			b.   Clarification in the prose of the spec that
WSDL element identifiers identify elements both in the WSDL and Schema
namespaces.

			c.   Correction of the "types" vs. "type
definitions" issue, described at [1].

			                        

			[1]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2007Feb/0002.html

			 

			 

			Paul Cotton, Microsoft Canada
			17 Eleanor Drive, Ottawa, Ontario K2E 6A3
			Tel: (613) 225-5445 Fax: (425) 936-7329
			mailto:Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com
			
			
			

			
________________________________


			From: public-ws-policy-comments-request@w3.org
[mailto:public-ws-policy-comments-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Jonathan
Marsh
			Sent: February 15, 2007 9:46 PM
			To: public-ws-policy-comments@w3.org
			Cc: www-ws-desc@w3.org
			Subject: WSDL WG Comments on WSDL 1.1 Element
Identifiers

			 

			Follows are some comments from the WSDL WG on
the WSDL 1.1 Element Identifiers draft.

			 

			1.   As in WSDL 2.0 component designators, this
spec recommends the creation of an identifier from the targetNamespace
of the WSDL 1.1 document, and that this identifier can be resolved
without considering imports and includes.  Unlike WSDL 2.0, in WSDL 1.1
the targetNamespace is not required, and although there is no
wsdl11:include, we have some evidence that some customers have used
multiple wsdl11:imports of the same namespace (which can be the same as
the targetNamespace) and different locations to modularlize their
documents - and that a number of popular tools actually support this
"abuse" of import.  These situations demonstrate the limits of the
assumption of a 1-1 correspondence between a WSDL 1.1 document and a
WSDL 1.1 targetNamespace.  The spec's recommendation to construct an
identifier using the targetNamespace doesn't work in these situations.
The spec should at least note situations (edge cases) which conflict
with the advice about creation of an element identifier from the
targetNamespace.

			 

			2.   The inclusion of identifiers for element
declarations and type definitions (which are not WSDL 1.1 elements)
seems inappropriate in this spec.  The presence of schema imports and
includes makes associating type definitions with a particular WSDL
document, and thus with a particular targetNamespace, problematic.
These identifiers don't seem to be required by WS-Policy Attachment.  We
recommend removing them.  If these identifiers remain, a number of
issues related to them should be addressed, including:

			d.   How imports and includes affect them.  Are
only in-lined schema elements considered?  Only elements in a schema
targetNamespace that is the same as the WSDL targetNamespace?  If not,
which ones?

			e.   Clarification in the prose of the spec that
WSDL element identifiers identify elements both in the WSDL and Schema
namespaces.

			f.     Correction of the "types" vs. "type
definitions" issue, described at [1].

			                        

			Thank you.

			 

			[1]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2007Feb/0002.html

			 

			Jonathan Marsh - http://www.wso2.com
<http://www.wso2.com>  - http://auburnmarshes.spaces.live.com
<http://auburnmarshes.spaces.live.com> 

			 

			 
Received on Thursday, 22 February 2007 00:07:30 GMT

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