Re: What is the Vocabulary of an Intersected Policy

What is the Vocabulary of an Intersected PolicyHi

But the effective policy contains just A&B, this policy is the output from the intersection, right ? At the intersection stage C & D have already been discarded
I don't understand why having C&D in the vocabulary of the effective policy will help to avoid applying them. 

Cheers, Sergey
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Ashok Malhotra 
  To: Sergey Beryozkin ; ws policy 
  Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 1:30 PM
  Subject: RE: What is the Vocabulary of an Intersected Policy


  Sergey, you said .

  > I don't understand. Why would the consumer need to keep C&D in the vocabulary of the effective(calculated through the intersection) policy if they can't be applied ?

   

  Just to make sure C and D are not applied.

  All the best, Ashok 


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  From: public-ws-policy-request@w3.org [mailto:public-ws-policy-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Sergey Beryozkin
  Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 1:25 AM
  To: Ashok Malhotra; ws policy
  Subject: Re: What is the Vocabulary of an Intersected Policy

   

  Hi

   

  My understanding is that A&B is the vocabulary of the final effective policy, the fact that this policy was computed through the intersection is not important

   

  "BUT, Chris points out the vocabulary should be {A,B,C,D} to remember the fact that this was the union of the vocabularies of the two intersected policies and that {C. D} must not be applied since they were not selected."

   

  I don't understand. Why would the consumer need to keep C&D in the vocabulary of the effective(calculated through the intersection) policy if they can't be appplied ?

   

  Cheers, Sergey

    ----- Original Message ----- 

    From: Ashok Malhotra 

    To: ws policy 

    Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 10:19 PM

    Subject: What is the Vocabulary of an Intersected Policy

     

    We spoke briefly about this on the call today and I see a problem.

    This note is an attempt to state the problem clearly.

    Consider two normalized policies:

    <Policy>

        <ExactlyOne>

            <All>

                  <A/>

                   <B/>

            </All>

             <All>\

                    <C/>

             </All>

          </ExactlyOne>

    </Policy>

    <Policy>

        <ExactlyOne>

            <All>

                  <A/>

                   <B/>

            </All>

             <All>\

                    <D/>

             </All>

          </ExactlyOne>

    </Policy>

    Let us intersect these two policies.  What we get is:

    <Policy>

        <ExactlyOne>

            <All>

                  <A/>

                   <B/>

            </All>

        </ExactlyOne>

    </Policy>

    Now, what is the vocabulary of this policy?  Looking at this policy alone it should be { A, B}.

    BUT, Chris points out the vocabulary should be {A,B,C,D} to remember the fact that this was the union of the vocabularies of the two intersected policies and that {C. D} must not be applied since they were not selected.

    This seems like a contradiction.   To remember the negative decision we need to include assertions that are not in the policy, in its vocabulary.

    SOLUTIONS:

    The only viable solution that I can see is to drop the 'negation' semantic, namely, "When an assertion whose type is part of the policy's vocabulary is not included in a policy alternative, the policy alternative without the assertion type indicates that the assertion will not be applied in the context of the attached policy subject."   (Dale was arguing for this on other grounds as well)  Some would object strongly to this.  A counter proposal would be to add an explicit NOT operator.

    Unfortunately, these are radical suggestions but I do not see any other way out.   

    All the best, Ashok