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RE: RE: Updated Editors Draft of WS-Policy 1.5 Primer - For Approval as Public WD

From: Yalcinalp, Umit <umit.yalcinalp@sap.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 08:46:48 -0700
Message-ID: <2BA6015847F82645A9BB31C7F9D64165024DDF93@uspale20.pal.sap.corp>
To: <fsasaki@w3.org>, "Maryann Hondo" <mhondo@us.ibm.com>
Cc: <public-ws-policy@w3.org>

 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: public-ws-policy-request@w3.org 
> [mailto:public-ws-policy-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Felix Sasaki
> Sent: Tuesday, Oct 03, 2006 7:47 PM
> To: Maryann Hondo
> Cc: public-ws-policy@w3.org
> Subject: RE: RE: Updated Editors Draft of WS-Policy 1.5 
> Primer - For Approval as Public WD
> 
> 
> Hi Maryann, all (I made the CC list smaller),
> 
> I see 2 potential issues with your proposal:
> - we cannot be sure if the WG agrees with the proposal to remove the
> section at today's call.

I am not sure I follow. What is the "deadline" we are trying to aim for?
Please see that in the email thread we have established that we do not
have a deadline for these two documents [1] yet. So, I am not following
the reason to hurry. 

Further, the idea is not to "remove" but to "move" the content. Note
that it is Especially, the section on versioning got excellent new
additions that we have not captured and it is quite essential to cover
this in the authors document. 

> - Even if the WG agrees, it might be difficult to remove the 
> complete section
> without changing the rest of the document, which again takes time and
> effort for the editors and will delay the publication process.

I will be happy to help if that is the case. I do not think that that is
a real issue and it is not sth that can not be fixed in couple of days. 

> How about leaving the section as it is, but adding the following:
> - an editors note at the beginning of the section (which will be
> highlighted in the HTML output with background color and 
> marked as EDITORS
> NOTE) saying: "The Working Group considers to remove this 
> section and to
> re-use it as input to a separate document on guidelines for assertion
> authors."
> - have a statement in the status section saying: "The Working Group is
> creating a separate document on guidelines for assertion 
> authors, which
> will be published in the future. The current version of this document
> contains a section on Guidelines for Designing Assertions, 
> see sec. 4.4.,
> which might be removed and re-used as input to that separate 
> document."
> If you and the WG would agree with these additions, we could 
> make them and
> still have the doc published soon.

If publishing the document soon is an inherent goal for some, what I am
suggesting is to wait for a week and clean up this section with the
provision of moving the contents to the authors guideline document. 

Again, why can't we do this next week? What implicit deadline are we
shooting for? 

> 
> Felix
> 

[1]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-policy/2006Sep/0183.html

> > I agree with Umit that it would be best, at a minimum, to remove the
> > Section "Guidelines" from the Primer and put it in the 
> Guidelines document
> > to begin to  address the overlaps between the two documents.  When I
> > presented the Guidelines at the F2F, I cited areas where we 
> could converge
> > the two documents but since we decided to have 2 documents, 
> we need to
> > address the reverse, the places where the documents overlap 
> in content.
> > Although the working group agreed to publish both documents, I don't
> > believe the working group agreed to any specific time frame.
> >
> > Maryann
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Yalcinalp, Umit" <umit.yalcinalp@sap.com>
> > Sent by: public-ws-policy-request@w3.org
> > 10/03/2006 09:03 PM
> >
> > To
> > "Paul Cotton" <Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com>, Christopher B
> > Ferris/Waltham/IBM@IBMUS
> > cc
> > "Prasad Yendluri" <prasad.yendluri@webmethods.com>,
> > <public-ws-policy@w3.org>, <public-ws-policy-eds@w3.org>
> > Subject
> > RE: RE: Updated Editors Draft of WS-Policy 1.5 Primer - For 
> Approval as
> > Public  WD
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I disagree that there is a document that is ready to go and 
> I disagree
> > with the principles as they do not cover overlapping 
> concerns which the wg
> > decided to address.
> >
> > To be specific, the presence of Section 4.4 "Guidelines for 
> Designing
> > Assertions" is counter productive and sets a precedence 
> that is hard to
> > eradicate. If this section is moved to the guidelines 
> document as it title
> > also indicates, I would not be objecting and leave the 
> issues that are to
> > be filed to the issue resolution process.
> >
> > HTH,
> >
> > --umit
> >
> >
> > From: Paul Cotton [mailto:Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, Oct 03, 2006 5:53 PM
> > To: Yalcinalp, Umit; Christopher B Ferris
> > Cc: Prasad Yendluri; public-ws-policy@w3.org; 
> public-ws-policy-eds@w3.org
> > Subject: RE: RE: Updated Editors Draft of WS-Policy 1.5 Primer - For
> > Approval as Public WD
> >
> >> It is essential to separate the content that is appropriate for the
> > authors guideline document from the the primer target 
> before the document
> > becomes a PD.
> >
> > I see no reason why we should hold up publication of the 
> first WD of the
> > Primer.  The F2F meeting agreed to publish both a Primer 
> and a Guidelines
> > document and we can work on eliminating problematic overlap 
> if that is
> > what the WG decides to do.
> >
> > As I said at the first F2F:
> >
> > 1. "Publish early, publish often".  AND
> > 2. "The WG does not have to have complete agreement on the 
> content of a
> > public WD ? we just need to agree that it is time to publish a WD."
> >
> > In this case we have a document ready to go and given the 
> above principles
> > I think we should make it public.
> >
> > /paulc
> > Paul Cotton, Microsoft Canada
> > 17 Eleanor Drive, Ottawa, Ontario K2E 6A3
> > Tel: (613) 225-5445 Fax: (425) 936-7329
> > mailto:Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: public-ws-policy-request@w3.org
> > [mailto:public-ws-policy-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of 
> Yalcinalp, Umit
> > Sent: October 3, 2006 8:32 PM
> > To: Christopher B Ferris; Paul Cotton
> > Cc: Prasad Yendluri; public-ws-policy@w3.org; 
> public-ws-policy-eds@w3.org;
> > public-ws-policy-eds-request@w3.org
> > Subject: RE: Updated Editors Draft of WS-Policy 1.5 Primer 
> - For Approval
> > as Public WD
> >
> > I am afraid I have to disagree.
> >
> > Maryann and I did a sweep on the document, there are some 
> aspects that
> > should be resolved before we can go ahead and publish it as 
> a public WD.
> > We have not had the chance to file them yet. It is 
> essential to separate
> > the content that is appropriate for the authors guideline 
> document from
> > the the primer target before the document becomes a PD. It 
> is essential to
> > separate out the sections specifically geared to authors 
> guidelines and
> > follow the wg's decision on targeting two different 
> audiences.  Of course,
> > we are not going to be addressing all the issues before the document
> > becomes a public draft, but once that major separation is done, the
> > remaining detailed issues can be addressed on the public wd.
> >
> > We are working on to create the issues that should be 
> resolved in order to
> > go forward with both documents. Therefore, I oppose making 
> the primer a
> > public draft as it stands today.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > --umit
> >
> >
> > From: public-ws-policy-request@w3.org
> > [mailto:public-ws-policy-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Christopher B
> > Ferris
> > Sent: Monday, Oct 02, 2006 2:31 PM
> > To: Paul Cotton
> > Cc: Prasad Yendluri; public-ws-policy@w3.org; 
> public-ws-policy-eds@w3.org;
> > public-ws-policy-eds-request@w3.org
> > Subject: RE: Updated Editors Draft of WS-Policy 1.5 Primer 
> - For Approval
> > as Public WD
> >
> > +1
> >
> > Christopher Ferris
> > STSM, Software Group Standards Strategy
> > email: chrisfer@us.ibm.com
> > blog: http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/blogs/page/chrisferris
> > phone: +1 508 377 9295
> >
> > public-ws-policy-eds-request@w3.org wrote on 10/02/2006 01:40:41 PM:
> >
> >> I have reviewed this Editor's Draft of the WS-Policy Primer and
> >> think it is ready to be published as a public WD.
> >>
> >> /paulc
> >>
> >> Paul Cotton, Microsoft Canada
> >> 17 Eleanor Drive, Ottawa, Ontario K2E 6A3
> >> Tel: (613) 225-5445 Fax: (425) 936-7329
> >> mailto:Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com
> >>
> >>
> >
> >>
> >> From: public-ws-policy-eds-request@w3.org [mailto:public-ws-policy-
> >> eds-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Prasad Yendluri
> >> Sent: September 30, 2006 2:15 PM
> >> To: public-ws-policy@w3.org
> >> Cc: public-ws-policy-eds@w3.org
> >> Subject: Updated Editors Draft of WS-Policy 1.5 Primer - For
> >> Approval as P ublic WD
> >>
> >> Folks,
> >>
> >> The updated Editors Draft of the WS-Policy 1.5 Primer Document is
> >> available at the following links:
> >>
> >> 
> http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2006/ws/policy/ws-policy-primer.
> >> html?rev=1.16
> >> http://tinyuri.com/egm3 (server seems down currently)
> >>
> >> This version addresses all comments from Paul Cotton (http://lists.
> >> w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-policy/2006Sep/0165.html)
> >>
> >> This document is being submitted to the Work Group for approval as
> > aPublic WD.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> WS-Policy Editing Team
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
Received on Wednesday, 4 October 2006 15:47:40 GMT

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