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RE: WSDL and pub/sub

From: Martin Chapman <martin.chapman@oracle.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 22:08:19 -0000
To: "'Martin Chapman'" <martin.chapman@oracle.com>, <david.burdett@commerceone.com>, <Farrukh.Najmi@Sun.COM>
Cc: <chiusano_joseph@bah.com>, <UCorda@SeeBeyond.com>, <Monica.Martin@Sun.COM>, <andyb@whyanbeel.net>, <steve@enigmatec.net>, <public-ws-chor@w3.org>
Message-ID: <007501c3f66b$b981c910$0901a8c0@ie.oracle.com>

another interesting piece of related work
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnglobs
pec/html/ws-discovery.asp

> -----Original Message-----
> From: public-ws-chor-request@w3.org 
> [mailto:public-ws-chor-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Martin Chapman
> Sent: 17 February 2004 19:20
> To: david.burdett@commerceone.com; Farrukh.Najmi@Sun.COM
> Cc: chiusano_joseph@bah.com; UCorda@SeeBeyond.com; 
> Monica.Martin@Sun.COM; andyb@whyanbeel.net; 
> steve@enigmatec.net; public-ws-chor@w3.org
> Subject: RE: WSDL and pub/sub
> 
> 
> 
> This discussion is getting off topic for this list!
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: public-ws-chor-request@w3.org
> > [mailto:public-ws-chor-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of 
> > david.burdett@commerceone.com
> > Sent: 17 February 2004 17:26
> > To: Farrukh.Najmi@Sun.COM
> > Cc: chiusano_joseph@bah.com; UCorda@SeeBeyond.com; 
> > Monica.Martin@Sun.COM; andyb@whyanbeel.net; 
> > steve@enigmatec.net; public-ws-chor@w3.org
> > Subject: RE: WSDL and pub/sub
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Farrukh
> > 
> > Thanks for the explanation, it makes sense. Here's another
> > question as I am really trying to get my mind around this ...
> > 
> > Suppose, that you want to build an auction capability using
> > the the following services, for example: 1. User Registration 
> > - registers a user 2. Auction Registration - records a 
> > registered user's interest in an auction 3. Bid Placement - a 
> > user that has registered an interest in an auction places a 
> > bid 4. Bid Notification - users that have registered an 
> > interest are notified of successful bids placed 4. Bid Result 
> > - the winner of the auction (if any) and other interested 
> > users are notified of the result of the auction 3. Winning 
> > Bid Payment - the winner of the auction pays, by credit card
> > 
> > Let's go further and assume that:
> > 1. There are existing User Registration and Winning Bid
> > Payment services that the operator of the auction wants to 
> > use 2. Bids are not automatically accepted, for example they 
> > must be higher than any previous bid and perhaps mulitples of 
> > $10, if that what the auction rule says 3. Users must be 
> > registered before they can bid.
> > 
> > This sounds to me to be more than what the ebXML Resistry was
> > designed for.
> > 
> > So some more questions:
> > 1. Could you sensibly use the pub/sub part of ebXML RR in the
> > above example. 2. If you can, you still have the problem of 
> > defining how you combine the ebXML RR pub/sub protocol with 
> > other existing protocols to ensure that they occur in the 
> > correct sequence.
> > 
> > Don't misunderstand me, I do think that ebXML RR has great
> > value in maintaining information about "static" objects, e.g. 
> > WSDL definitions, schemas, etc, I'm just not sure that it is 
> > the appropriate technology to use for this use case.
> > 
> > Thoughts
> > 
> > David
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Farrukh Najmi [mailto:Farrukh.Najmi@Sun.COM]
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2004 4:39 AM
> > To: Burdett, David
> > Cc: chiusano_joseph@bah.com; UCorda@SeeBeyond.com;
> > Monica.Martin@Sun.COM; andyb@whyanbeel.net; 
> > steve@enigmatec.net; public-ws-chor@w3.org
> > Subject: Re: WSDL and pub/sub
> > 
> > 
> > david.burdett@commerceone.com wrote:
> > 
> > >Monica, Joseph, Ugo et al
> > >
> > >A question. Just suppose you wanted to use the ebXML RR spec
> > with other
> > >XML documents designed to support the Auction use case I
> > described earlier, would there be any issues that you can
> > think of. For example ... would you need to have an ebXML 
> > Registry to store information about Auction objects?
> > >  
> > >
> > David,
> > 
> > Funny you should mention an auction scenario and ebXML
> > Registry. See a 
> > recent exchange below where I used the same scenario in the 
> > context of 
> > ebXML Registry event notification.
> > 
> > I feel that ebXML Registry event notification could be used
> > to support 
> > multi-party collaboration scenarios as the next logical step 
> > from binary 
> > collaborations exemplified by ebXML Messaging and SOAP.
> > 
> > As it currently stands, registry events are only triggered when a
> > CREATE/UPADTE/DELETE operation occurs
> > in the registry. For example a BiddableObject must be written to 
> > registry to represent that something is open for bids. 
> > Bidders would be 
> > subscribed to BiddableObjects and will be notified. They can 
> > then write 
> > Bid objects to the registry. The auctioneer would be 
> > subscribed to Bids 
> > for "their" BiddableObjects and will be notified when a Bid 
> > is placed. 
> > They would have to write a BidResult object to registry 
> when bidding 
> > closes and all Bidders would be notified of the BidResult.
> > 
> > So yes several objects would have to be written to the
> > registry in order 
> > to support this scenario.
> > 
> > --
> > Regards,
> > Farrukh
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -------- Original Message from Farrukh on regrep in reply to
> > Joe  --------
> > Subject: 	Re: [regrep] Direct Data Exchange vs. SOA
> > Date: 	Wed, 11 Feb 2004 10:50:12 -0500
> > From: 	Farrukh Najmi <Farrukh.Najmi@Sun.COM>
> > To: 	Chiusano Joseph <chiusano_joseph@bah.com>
> > CC: 	regrep@lists.oasis-open.org 
> <regrep@lists.oasis-open.org>
> > References: 	<402A4C2C.C65CF5F1@bah.com>
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Chiusano Joseph wrote:
> > 
> > >I have an inquiry that is not directly related to our
> > mission here, but
> > >I hope to get some good insight in response please:
> > >
> > >Let's say we have a purchase order process between trading
> > partners (PO
> > >sent, Invoice received). There are (for the purposes of this
> > inquiry) 2
> > >possible ways to handle this process:
> > >
> > >(1) Direct Data Exchange (create XML documents based on a common
> > >schema, and exchange them between trading partners)
> > >
> > >(2) SOA (have a purchase order/invoice shared service that is
> > >discovered in a registry, etc.)
> > >
> > >My inquiry is: What would drive an organization to use one
> > approach or
> > >the other, from both a business and technical standpoint?
> > For instance,
> > >would "critical mass of services and/or trading partners" be
> > a driver
> > >for SOA vs. direct data exchange?
> > >
> > >  
> > >
> > The second approach allows for multi-party colaboration instead of
> > binary collaboration.
> > It would rely on Registry Event notification. An example would be a 
> > bidding or auction scenario.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
Received on Wednesday, 18 February 2004 17:08:36 GMT

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