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Re: [whatwg] Adding 2D Canvas features (Was: Grouping in canvas 2d)

From: Rik Cabanier <cabanier@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2013 20:01:43 -0700
Message-ID: <CAGN7qDB=omA0auKr3GoUY+0kePWjwtm2twQ6cKwduUvs+RGxfg@mail.gmail.com>
To: Tom Wiltzius <wiltzius@chromium.org>
Cc: whatwg@whatwg.org, Ian Hickson <ian@hixie.ch>, Brian Salomon <bsalomon@chromium.org>
On Fri, Jun 28, 2013 at 6:35 PM, Tom Wiltzius <wiltzius@chromium.org> wrote:

> I agree there isn't a risk of these unrelated additional features not
> matching their hypothetical specs.
>
> However, my concern is Ian's comment that he'd prefer not to add
> additional features to the spec -- some of the ones being actively
> developed in Chromium aren't added yet, and I'd hate for them to not get
> added even if we have consensus on their behavior and early implementations.
>

If you can get them into 2 stable browsers, I'm very sure that Ian will add
it to the specification.
It seems that Ian is mostly concerned that we're adding more and more
features to the document but they are not being worked on. This makes the
WHATWG spec less useful since you can't tell what's implemented or not. (It
also makes a lot of useless work for Ian if he has to cut it later.)


>
> To quote Ian's initial message:
>
> """I think before we add more features, it's important that we figure out
> which browsers want to implement which features, and that we start with
> the highest priority ones.""""
>
> ... so I'm trying to provide context about what Chromium is currently
> implementing, and hence what might be higher priority to spec.
>

I think what's needed is that the person who proposes a feature and gets it
accepted on the mailing list, also needs to follow up and coordinate with
the browsers so it actually gets implemented.
For instance, is google following up with mozilla to land the context
"alpha" attribute or talking to Safari if they can implement it?


>
>
> On Fri, Jun 28, 2013 at 12:48 PM, Rik Cabanier <cabanier@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> As long as those features don't build upon other unimplemented features,
>> there should be no risk.
>> However, accessibility (=hit regions) is a must and should be tackled as
>> soon as possible.
>>
>> Rik
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 28, 2013 at 12:30 PM, Tom Wiltzius <wiltzius@chromium.org>wrote:
>>
>>> The only major Canvas2D features being actively developed in Chromium
>>> right now are:
>>>
>>>  - having a canvas context "alpha" attribute
>>>  - text decoration
>>>  - compositing and blending
>>>  - canvas access in workers
>>>
>>> (easily referenced from http://www.chromestatus.com/features)
>>>
>>> It is concerning to me that the list of other unimplemented features
>>> that aren't being worked on could block the standardization of the above
>>> (all of which have been discussed on this list at one point, but not all of
>>> which are in the spec yet).
>>>
>>> How can we help reconcile this discrepancy?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 11:54 AM, Rik Cabanier <cabanier@gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> I agree that hit regions should be high on the priority list. They've
>>>> been
>>>> in the spec for a while and are absolutely required for accessibility.
>>>> I will try to follow up on this feature with the browsers. We recently
>>>> added a basic Path object to WebKit and I know that mozilla is looking
>>>> at
>>>> the path object.
>>>>
>>>> At this point, I wouldn't ask to add begin/endLayer to the spec.
>>>> Instead,
>>>> we will talk to the browser vendors and work on implementing the
>>>> feature.
>>>> Just putting it in the spec is not enough to get an implementation...
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 10:42 AM, Ian Hickson <ian@hixie.ch> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > On Fri, 14 Jun 2013, Brian Salomon wrote:
>>>> > >
>>>> > > As an implementor, we would prefer the layer approach. This would
>>>> have
>>>> > > lower overhead in Chromium/Skia. We can make better decisions about
>>>> > > caching and deferred rendering. It also seems like a really handy
>>>> API
>>>> > > for devs, especially the ability to inherit the graphics state.
>>>> Would
>>>> > > the spec have anything to say about beginLayer()/endLayer()
>>>> balancing,
>>>> > > especially with respect to RAF?
>>>> >
>>>> > I have no ojection to adding this to the spec, but right now the spec
>>>> has
>>>> > a bunch of features that aren't implemented, and there's a long list
>>>> of
>>>> > other features people want that aren't yet specced. I'm very hesitant
>>>> to
>>>> > get the spec further and further away from implementations.
>>>> >
>>>> > For example, here are some of the bug numbers for <canvas> feature
>>>> > requests:
>>>> >
>>>> > 11399   <canvas> Locking individual color channels (e.g. drawing to
>>>> alpha
>>>> >                  only)
>>>> > 21835   <canvas> Path object should have a way to add paths keeping
>>>> only
>>>> >                  the union given a fill rule
>>>> > 21939   <canvas> Path objects would be much more useful if their
>>>> >                  individual commands (moveTo, lineTo, etc.) could be
>>>> >                  inspected from JavaScript [...]
>>>> > 8794    <canvas> lineWidth = 'hairline'
>>>> > 11739   <canvas> clearPath() that clears pixels the way clearRect()
>>>> does,
>>>> >                  but using a path
>>>> > 9236    <canvas> Detecting the intersection of Path objects
>>>> > 9235    <canvas> perspective transformations
>>>> > 18751   <canvas> a way to get the coordinate of the last point in a
>>>> path
>>>> > 21346   <canvas> Have ImageBitmap expose height and width attributes
>>>> >
>>>> > (Bugs accessible from https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/)
>>>> >
>>>> > There's also the printCallback API proposal from Mozilla:
>>>> >
>>>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-whatwg-archive/2012Sep/0371.html
>>>> >
>>>> > Adding a parameter to drawImage for sprite sheets to avoid bleeding,
>>>> > proposal from Chrome:
>>>> >
>>>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-whatwg-archive/2012Dec/0088.html
>>>> >
>>>> > Stroke alignment:
>>>> >
>>>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-whatwg-archive/2010Jul/0238.html
>>>> >
>>>> > Page flipping instead of double buffering:
>>>> >
>>>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-whatwg-archive/2013Jan/0073.html
>>>> >
>>>> > Inner shadows:
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> http://lists.whatwg.org/pipermail/whatwg-whatwg.org/2012-November/038079.html
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Plus, as I mentioned, things in the spec that aren't implemented
>>>> widely:
>>>> > Right now, the things in the spec that aren't widely implemented are
>>>> the
>>>> > things that were needed for accessibility (hit regions) and the things
>>>> > that are the basis for some of the most-requested features (Paths).
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > I think before we add more features, it's important that we figure out
>>>> > which browsers want to implement which features, and that we start
>>>> with
>>>> > the highest priority ones.
>>>> >
>>>> > --
>>>> > Ian Hickson               U+1047E                )\._.,--....,'``.
>>>>  fL
>>>> > http://ln.hixie.ch/       U+263A                /,   _.. \   _\
>>>>  ;`._ ,.
>>>> > Things that are impossible just take longer.
>>>> `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
Received on Saturday, 29 June 2013 03:02:08 UTC

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