W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > whatwg@whatwg.org > December 2007

[whatwg] The truth about Nokias claims

From: Maik Merten <maikmerten@googlemail.com>
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 22:04:16 +0100
Message-ID: <47619E50.8030304@gmail.com>
Charles schrieb:
>> Right, but of course neither VCEG nor ISO/IEC have a monopoly on
>> setting standards.
> 
> Certainly, sir, but that wasn't my point.

Noted.

> In my experience, an organization (non-profit or not) can't simply publish their own specification and claim, "hey, this is a standard".

MPEG essentially does just that ;)

Any group of individuals and/or organizations that is negotiating on one
common spec may be considered to be an organization issuing standards.

If every party on world shall be supposed to accept any spec as
"standard" just because some group says so is of course a completely
different matter.

I think it all depends on definition and interpretation. If MPEG is an
organization issuing "real" standards and Xiph is not... can e.g. WHATWG
be considered to be issuing a "real" standard? Can individual companies
issue standards? Is there a standard for creating standards?

Anyway, I think your point is that Xiph.org most likely isn't considered
to be an "established" standard-issuing group by all parties.


>> Putting the Theora bitstream into the same efficiency class as
>> MPEG-1 is pretty questionable...
> 
> You're right, that was based on my experience with VC3.  It's possible that Theora is a bit more efficient, although any significant efficiency improvements versus the VC3 base would also increase the "surface area" at risk to infringement.

It's extending on "low hanging fruits". The most noticable change would
be that Theora streams carry parameters which were hard-coded in VP3,
which isn't a new concept.

Note that the VP3 encoder, which Theora did inherit, is/was pretty buggy
and isn't doing good decisions in a lot of cases. This is being worked
on and getting the encoder into a much better shape is what'll bring the
reference encoder to a 1.0 version level.

> This is getting uncomfortably off-topic, but a reasonable real-world target is 300 Kbps for both audio and video, maybe less if you want it increase the chances of it working around rush hour.

Okay, this is more or less what can be seen in action on e.g. Youtube
(256 kbit/s H.263 with 64 kbit/s MP3). Good encoders for pre-H.264
formats can provide a working solution (and to my knowledge Youtube
isn't even using the most sophisticated H.263 encoder available). Theora
can do this, no doubt.

Maik
Received on Thursday, 13 December 2007 13:04:16 UTC

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