W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > whatwg@whatwg.org > December 2007

[whatwg] Removal of Ogg is *preposterous*

From: Manuel Amador <rudd-o@rudd-o.com>
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 15:12:13 -0500
Message-ID: <200712111512.16578.rudd-o@rudd-o.com>
> It was intended as meaning "recognized" in the sense of browsers
> recognising them. No currently shipping browser recognises either Ogg
> Vorbis or FLAC.

If I use EMBED on Konqueror pointing to an Ogg Vorbis file, I get a nice 
player with streaming and everything.  Konqueror's shipping, isn't it?

There is at least *one* browser that already supports, through GStreamer, Ogg 
in <video> tags.  I'd give you the link but it apparently fell off the end of 
Planet GNOME so I can't find it...  Now hold on, it's not shipping, but that 
doesn't mean it won't be shipping tomorrow.

What you actually wanted to say (but couldn't/didn't/were unwilling to) is:

"No currently shipping browser by any of the major proprietary software 
vendors support Ogg Vorbis or FLAC".

And the reason they don't support it is because they have colluded against Ogg 
Vorbis or FLAC because they free consumers from proprietary prisons -- a 
development that is bad news for monopoly rent-seekers.  It's not just that 
proprietary browser vendors don't give a rat's arse about Ogg technology -- 
on the contrary, they're actively undermining it, as evidenced by this 
outrageous act of seemingly-neutral (but in reality 
pro-proprietary) "editing" of the spec.

> >
> > It's just dollars.
>
> Apple does not license Apple Lossless to anyone else AFAIK,

OK.  So they sell fewer iPods because iPods don't play Ogg Vorbis without 
Rockbox.  Same outcome.

> and the 
> only standards that MPEG-LA collects money for that Apple receives any
> share of whatsoever is "MPEG-4 Systems" and IEEE 1394 (Firewire).
> Neither of these have anything to do with audio/video codecs. Saying
> that Apple has a financial interest in wanting MPEG codecs mandated in
> HTML 5 is totally untrue.

I didn't say Apple wanted MPEG codecs mandated in HTML 5, so don't put words 
in my mouth or attempt to smoke-and-mirrors us with straw men.  This is 
either a fumble on your part or an attempt to derail the discussion into 
wreckland.

I said Apple doesn't want Ogg Vorbis because they don't control the tech, and 
because they would very much rather have consumers "prefer" (in the sense of 
being screwed with no choice) DRM-encumbered AAC (note it's not the codec, 
but the controlling of the consumer that matters here).

>
>
> --
> Geoffrey Sneddon
> <http://gsnedders.com/>



-- 

	Manuel Amador (Rudd-O) <rudd-o at rudd-o.com>
	Rudd-O.com - http://rudd-o.com/
	GPG key ID 0xC8D28B92 at http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/

Today is what happened to yesterday.
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Received on Tuesday, 11 December 2007 12:12:13 UTC

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