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Re[2]: Gap analysis: SCXML (was Re: Gap analysis: SMIL)

From: Futomi Hatano <futomi.hatano@newphoria.co.jp>
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2012 10:07:13 +0900
To: ashimura@w3.org
Cc: public-websignage@w3.org
Message-Id: <20121211100712.6F60.17D6BAFB@newphoria.co.jp>
On Mon, 10 Dec 2012 16:55:04 +0900
Kazuyuki Ashimura <ashimura@w3.org> wrote:

> Hi Futomi,
> 
> Thank YOU very much for your leading the discussion and considering
> SCXML as well.

If there are no objections to including SCXML into the doc, I will do it.
How about if we wait for more opinions except you and me for a few days?

> BTW, I think my point is:
> 
> - We should not restrict the possibilities of any existing
>    approaches/mechanisms including SCXML, CSS, SVG and SMIL, at this
>    stage, i.e., Gap Analysis.
> 
> - We should not jump into technical details at this stage, though
>    detailed discussions on possible implementations/services should
>    follow.
> 
> - We should involve all the stakeholders and get their opinions as
>    well.  For example, we should ask all the participants in the June
>    workshop [1] to provide their views.

Basically, I agree with you.
We should consider their opinions at the workshop.
But eventually, I'd like to give priority to this BG members (i.e. W3C members).


> Please note it seems some of the workshop participants, e.g., Innes,
> are not included in the public-websignage list.  So I'd suggest we ask
> them (=missing stakeholders) to join the list and provide their views.
> 
> What do you think?

Agree.
I will welcome all signage operators.

Cheers,
Futomi


> [1] http://www.w3.org/2012/06/signage/attendees.html
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Kazuyuki
> 
> 
> On 12/07/2012 03:18 PM, Futomi Hatano wrote:
>  > Hi Kaz and all,
>  >
>  > I had forgotten INNES's proposal.
>  > Thanks for bringing it back to me.
>  >
>  > I'm wondering if complicated scenarios should be achieved
>  > by a declarative approach.
>  > I think a declarative approach works well in simple scenarios.
>  > Most of existing signage contents are very simple.
>  >
>  > For complicated scenarios, scripting is better.
>  > I suppose that such complicated scenarios are rare actually.
>  >
>  > I'm not familiar with SCXML for now.
>  > I'm sorry in advance if I'm saying strange things.
>  >
>  > Basically, "Web-based Signage" is "HTML-based Signage",
>  > not "XML-based Signage" in my mind.
>  >
>  > It's
>  > <!DOCTYPE html>
>  > <html lang="en">...</html>
>  >
>  > not
>  > <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
>  > <smil>...</smil>
>  >
>  > nor
>  > <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
>  > <scxml>...</scxml>
>  >
>  > But this is possible.
>  > <!DOCTYPE html>
>  > <html lang="en">
>  >    <head>...</head>
>  >    <body>
>  >      <svg>...</svg>
>  >      <!-- If many people want, could be... -->
>  >      <smil>...</smil>
>  >      <scxml>...</scxml>
>  >    </body>
>  > </html>
>  >
>  > Web browsers are installed in various type of devices widely,
>  > not only PC, smartphone but also TV, IVI, etc.
>  > Besides, we can use various JavaScript APIs.
>  > We can enhance functionality using scripts easily.
>  >
>  > SMIL browsers and SCXML browsers aren't popular.
>  > Technically, SMIL and SCXML could be ideal for creating signage contents.
>  > But XML-based approach isn't realistic in real life for now, I think.
>  >
>  > To all,
>  > How do you think?
>  > This discussion is really important for us.
>  > Should we consider SCXML for a declarative approach at this time?
>  > Do you think "Web-based Signage" is "HTML-based Signage" or not?
>  > I'd like to hear your opinions.
>  >
>  > To Kaz,
>  > Thank you for raising a important question.
>  >
>  > Cheers,
>  > Futomi
>  >
>  >
>  > On Fri, 07 Dec 2012 13:39:16 +0900
>  > Kazuyuki Ashimura <ashimura@w3.org> wrote:
>  >
>  >> Hi Futomi,
>  >>
>  >> Thanks for providing your view.
>  >>
>  >> However, I'm not sure why you don't think SCXML is "realistic".
>  >>
>  >> I thought Innes did mention during the June workshop that they
>  >> used SCXML and proposed to use it as a way to express interactive
>  >> state transition for advanced signage services.
>  >>
>  >> Please see page 23 of their slides at:
>  >>
>  >> 
> http://www.w3.org/2012/06/signage/slides/Innes/Innes-press-Digital-Signage-Workshop-W3C-June-2012-Japan.pdf
>  >>
>  >> So I think SCXML should be also included in the gap analysis [1],
>  >> though there is of course a possibility it won't be included
>  >> in the final Requirements document.
>  >>
>  >> [1]
>  >> 
> http://www.w3.org/community/websignage/wiki/Web-based_Signage_Use_cases_and_Requirements#R1._Making_contents_using_a_declarative_approach
>  >>
>  >> Thanks,
>  >>
>  >> Kazuyuki
>  >>
>  >>
>  >> On 12/07/2012 01:15 PM, Futomi Hatano wrote:
>  >>> On Fri, 07 Dec 2012 04:55:11 +0900
>  >>> Kazuyuki Ashimura <ashimura@w3.org> wrote:
>  >>>
>  >>>> For example, as I mentioned at the Web-based Signage Workshop in June
>  >>>> [1], even SCXML could be another "related existing standard" here.
>  >>>>
>  >>>> Also we should concentrate on thinking about "what is actually
>  >>>> necessary and valuable" as Charles mentioned above rather than
>  >>>> rejecting any possibilities at least at the gap analysis stage.
>  >>>
>  >>> Thanks for letting me know about SCXML.
>  >>> Although SCXML could be a candidate for new-gen SMIL
>  >>> as you mentioned at the workshop, I think it has lower possibility
>  >>> to be accepted by signage industry than SMIL.
>  >>>
>  >>> It seems to be similar to the topic discussed in W3C and
>  >>> web communities years ago: "XHTML 2 vs. HTML5".
>  >>> I think SMIL supporters in signage industry would like to
>  >>> extend SMIL rather than adopting or developing a new language.
>  >>>
>  >>> Although the doc should include all possibilities as gap analysis,
>  >>> it must be realistic. I don't think SCXML is realistic for now.
>  >>> "Realistic" means the possibility that SCXML will be implemented
>  >>> in web browsers and there are some supporters.
>  >>> As far as I know, no one in signage industry support SCXML.
>  >>> So I don't think we need to add SCXML in the doc now.
>  >>>
>  >>> At least, SMIL is realistic. there are some enthusiastic supporters,
>  >>> and it has already implemented some web browsers, and we can
>  >>> use it (maybe animation only) in HTML through inline SVG now.
>  >>>
>  >>> But I don't deny SCXML completely. If it become realistic
>  >>> and we believe it is useful for creating signage contents,
>  >>> then we should consider it.
>  >>>
>  >>> Cheers,
>  >>> Futomi
>  >>>
>  >>> --
>  >>> Newphoria Corporation
>  >>> Chief Technology Officer
>  >>> Futomi Hatano
>  >>> --
>  >>> futomi.hatano@newphoria.co.jp
>  >>> http://www.newphoria.co.jp/
>  >>>
>  >>
>  >>
>  >> --
>  >> Kaz Ashimura, W3C Staff Contact for Web&TV, MMI and Voice
>  >> Tel: +81 466 49 1170
>  >
>  > --
>  > Newphoria Corporation
>  > Chief Technology Officer
>  > Futomi Hatano
>  > --
>  > futomi.hatano@newphoria.co.jp
>  > http://www.newphoria.co.jp/
>  >
> 
> 
> -- 
> Kaz Ashimura, W3C Staff Contact for Web&TV, MMI and Voice
> Tel: +81 466 49 1170
> 

--
Newphoria Corporation
Chief Technology Officer
Futomi Hatano
--
futomi.hatano@newphoria.co.jp
http://www.newphoria.co.jp/
Received on Tuesday, 11 December 2012 01:07:28 GMT

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