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Re: Gap analysis: SCXML (was Re: Gap analysis: SMIL)

From: Kazuyuki Ashimura <ashimura@w3.org>
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2012 16:55:04 +0900
Message-ID: <50C59558.1010107@w3.org>
To: Futomi Hatano <futomi.hatano@newphoria.co.jp>
CC: public-websignage@w3.org
Hi Futomi,

Thank YOU very much for your leading the discussion and considering
SCXML as well.

BTW, I think my point is:

- We should not restrict the possibilities of any existing
   approaches/mechanisms including SCXML, CSS, SVG and SMIL, at this
   stage, i.e., Gap Analysis.

- We should not jump into technical details at this stage, though
   detailed discussions on possible implementations/services should
   follow.

- We should involve all the stakeholders and get their opinions as
   well.  For example, we should ask all the participants in the June
   workshop [1] to provide their views.

Please note it seems some of the workshop participants, e.g., Innes,
are not included in the public-websignage list.  So I'd suggest we ask
them (=missing stakeholders) to join the list and provide their views.

What do you think?

[1] http://www.w3.org/2012/06/signage/attendees.html

Thanks,

Kazuyuki


On 12/07/2012 03:18 PM, Futomi Hatano wrote:
 > Hi Kaz and all,
 >
 > I had forgotten INNES's proposal.
 > Thanks for bringing it back to me.
 >
 > I'm wondering if complicated scenarios should be achieved
 > by a declarative approach.
 > I think a declarative approach works well in simple scenarios.
 > Most of existing signage contents are very simple.
 >
 > For complicated scenarios, scripting is better.
 > I suppose that such complicated scenarios are rare actually.
 >
 > I'm not familiar with SCXML for now.
 > I'm sorry in advance if I'm saying strange things.
 >
 > Basically, "Web-based Signage" is "HTML-based Signage",
 > not "XML-based Signage" in my mind.
 >
 > It's
 > <!DOCTYPE html>
 > <html lang="en">...</html>
 >
 > not
 > <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
 > <smil>...</smil>
 >
 > nor
 > <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
 > <scxml>...</scxml>
 >
 > But this is possible.
 > <!DOCTYPE html>
 > <html lang="en">
 >    <head>...</head>
 >    <body>
 >      <svg>...</svg>
 >      <!-- If many people want, could be... -->
 >      <smil>...</smil>
 >      <scxml>...</scxml>
 >    </body>
 > </html>
 >
 > Web browsers are installed in various type of devices widely,
 > not only PC, smartphone but also TV, IVI, etc.
 > Besides, we can use various JavaScript APIs.
 > We can enhance functionality using scripts easily.
 >
 > SMIL browsers and SCXML browsers aren't popular.
 > Technically, SMIL and SCXML could be ideal for creating signage contents.
 > But XML-based approach isn't realistic in real life for now, I think.
 >
 > To all,
 > How do you think?
 > This discussion is really important for us.
 > Should we consider SCXML for a declarative approach at this time?
 > Do you think "Web-based Signage" is "HTML-based Signage" or not?
 > I'd like to hear your opinions.
 >
 > To Kaz,
 > Thank you for raising a important question.
 >
 > Cheers,
 > Futomi
 >
 >
 > On Fri, 07 Dec 2012 13:39:16 +0900
 > Kazuyuki Ashimura <ashimura@w3.org> wrote:
 >
 >> Hi Futomi,
 >>
 >> Thanks for providing your view.
 >>
 >> However, I'm not sure why you don't think SCXML is "realistic".
 >>
 >> I thought Innes did mention during the June workshop that they
 >> used SCXML and proposed to use it as a way to express interactive
 >> state transition for advanced signage services.
 >>
 >> Please see page 23 of their slides at:
 >>
 >> 
http://www.w3.org/2012/06/signage/slides/Innes/Innes-press-Digital-Signage-Workshop-W3C-June-2012-Japan.pdf
 >>
 >> So I think SCXML should be also included in the gap analysis [1],
 >> though there is of course a possibility it won't be included
 >> in the final Requirements document.
 >>
 >> [1]
 >> 
http://www.w3.org/community/websignage/wiki/Web-based_Signage_Use_cases_and_Requirements#R1._Making_contents_using_a_declarative_approach
 >>
 >> Thanks,
 >>
 >> Kazuyuki
 >>
 >>
 >> On 12/07/2012 01:15 PM, Futomi Hatano wrote:
 >>> On Fri, 07 Dec 2012 04:55:11 +0900
 >>> Kazuyuki Ashimura <ashimura@w3.org> wrote:
 >>>
 >>>> For example, as I mentioned at the Web-based Signage Workshop in June
 >>>> [1], even SCXML could be another "related existing standard" here.
 >>>>
 >>>> Also we should concentrate on thinking about "what is actually
 >>>> necessary and valuable" as Charles mentioned above rather than
 >>>> rejecting any possibilities at least at the gap analysis stage.
 >>>
 >>> Thanks for letting me know about SCXML.
 >>> Although SCXML could be a candidate for new-gen SMIL
 >>> as you mentioned at the workshop, I think it has lower possibility
 >>> to be accepted by signage industry than SMIL.
 >>>
 >>> It seems to be similar to the topic discussed in W3C and
 >>> web communities years ago: "XHTML 2 vs. HTML5".
 >>> I think SMIL supporters in signage industry would like to
 >>> extend SMIL rather than adopting or developing a new language.
 >>>
 >>> Although the doc should include all possibilities as gap analysis,
 >>> it must be realistic. I don't think SCXML is realistic for now.
 >>> "Realistic" means the possibility that SCXML will be implemented
 >>> in web browsers and there are some supporters.
 >>> As far as I know, no one in signage industry support SCXML.
 >>> So I don't think we need to add SCXML in the doc now.
 >>>
 >>> At least, SMIL is realistic. there are some enthusiastic supporters,
 >>> and it has already implemented some web browsers, and we can
 >>> use it (maybe animation only) in HTML through inline SVG now.
 >>>
 >>> But I don't deny SCXML completely. If it become realistic
 >>> and we believe it is useful for creating signage contents,
 >>> then we should consider it.
 >>>
 >>> Cheers,
 >>> Futomi
 >>>
 >>> --
 >>> Newphoria Corporation
 >>> Chief Technology Officer
 >>> Futomi Hatano
 >>> --
 >>> futomi.hatano@newphoria.co.jp
 >>> http://www.newphoria.co.jp/
 >>>
 >>
 >>
 >> --
 >> Kaz Ashimura, W3C Staff Contact for Web&TV, MMI and Voice
 >> Tel: +81 466 49 1170
 >
 > --
 > Newphoria Corporation
 > Chief Technology Officer
 > Futomi Hatano
 > --
 > futomi.hatano@newphoria.co.jp
 > http://www.newphoria.co.jp/
 >


-- 
Kaz Ashimura, W3C Staff Contact for Web&TV, MMI and Voice
Tel: +81 466 49 1170
Received on Monday, 10 December 2012 07:55:43 GMT

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