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WebRTC Teleconference minutes Dec 15

From: Dominique Hazael-Massieux <dom@w3.org>
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2011 09:16:18 +0100
Message-ID: <1323936978.3017.51.camel@altostratustier>
To: public-webrtc@w3.org
Hi,

The minutes of our teleconference today are available at:
http://www.w3.org/2011/12/15-webrtc-minutes.html

and copied as text below.

Corrections are welcome.

Dom

       Web Real-Time Communications Working Group Teleconference

15 Dec 2011

   See also: [2]IRC log

      [2] http://www.w3.org/2011/12/15-webrtc-irc

Attendees

   Present
          hta, +46.1.07.14.aabb, dom, +46.1.07.14.aacc, derf, stefanh,
          David, +0086136832aadd, +1.857.288.aaee, +1.610.889.aaff,
          Dan_Burnett, +358.505.22aagg, +86255662aahh,
          +82.31.30.1.aaii, nstratford, +91.80.67.89.aajj, juberti,
          adambe, Narm_Gadiraju

   Regrets
   Chair
          Harald

   Scribe
          stefanh

Contents

     * [3]Topics
         1. [4]Status of API document
         2. [5]Bugzilla
         3. [6]Media Capture TF status
         4. [7]Action items review
         5. [8]Next meeting
         6. [9]AOB
     * [10]Summary of Action Items
     _________________________________________________________

   <dom> ScribeNick: stefanh

   Harald: checking who's on line

   <tpanton> tpanton = tim panton @ voxeo

   <CE> ce = christophe eyrignoux

   <juberti> juberti = justin @ google

   Markus Isomäki on call (not in IRC)

   harald: agenda OK?

Status of API document

   harald: agenda OK...

   Next topic: API document status

   <dom> [11]WebRTC API editors draft, latest release on Dec 12

     [11] http://dev.w3.org/2011/webrtc/editor/webrtc.html

   adambe giving update on the API documet

   <dom> [12]Changes since previous draft

     [12] http://www.w3.org/2007/10/htmldiff?doc1=http%3A%2F%
2Fdev.w3.org%2F2011%2Fwebrtc%2Feditor%2Fwebrtc-20111017.html&doc2=http%
3A%2F%2Fdev.w3.org%2F2011%2Fwebrtc%2Feditor%2Fwebrtc.html

   adambe: what is new in the editor's draft of Dec 12

   moved access to mic cam to separate document (but still in the
   webrtc document - will be removed)

   scribe: a lot of editorial changes
   ... separating tracks into separate audio and video track lists
   ....motivation: align with media element (which now has separate
   track lists for audio and video)
   ... examples updated to be aligned with specificaion
   ... a lot of editorial: broken links, clean up, removing stuff that
   did not render.

   hta: in next sections we will talk about planned changes.
   ... planned changes:

   remove getUserMedia, track list

   adambe: move state handling from stream to track before adding
   "addTrack/removeTrack" funtions

   will come in next version

   hta: let's talk about changes
   ... make track lists of MediaStream's mutable (to allow add and
   remove of tracks) is coming

   will be introduced very soon

   scribe: what I have been working on for some time is when
   "addstream" is fired. before this was tied to data in
   ... at least one of the tracks,
   ... but now decided to fire when the signaling carried out
   ... tracks will then be in muted state, and become live as data
   starts arriving.
   ... the simple app will not have to be changes, but gives more
   control to the advanced app.
   ... Moving state handling to track level also makes things more
   consistent at "error" cases (like camer unplugged but mic still
   present)
   ... Quite a big change, but seems to make a lot of sense.

   hta: not in the released spec yet, but in the github version.
   ... more changes will be discussed when going through actions.
   ... do the editors have open items that they want feedback on from
   the group?

   dom: couple of questions
   ... 1. Echo cancellation. How much control in the API? Needs to be
   watched.
   ... 2. Updating the WD according to W3C rules. A new dated WD needed
   every 3rd month.
   ... so we should plan for a release at least before the f2f

   hta: EC (Echo Cancellation) need to know the relation of what
   streams out of the device and what is played

   <jesup> Agree - see derf's comment tonight on the list

   hta: not so simple as saying it's a PeerConnection detail. Need to
   wait for a proposal on the list.

   justing: Randell has a proposal on the list.

   <dom> [13]Randell's proposal on echo cancellation

     [13]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webrtc/2011Dec/0038.html

   Randell: yes, I proposed a simple API
   ... a comment made to make a media options API to prepare for
   extensions

   justing: that could be a starting point for a proposal.

   hta: randell, could you take an action?

   <hta> ACTION: randell to get the echo cancellation into the spec
   [recorded in
   [14]http://www.w3.org/2011/12/15-webrtc-minutes.html#action01]

   <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - randell

   randell: sure

   <scribe> ACTION: propose EC API on jesup [recorded in
   [15]http://www.w3.org/2011/12/15-webrtc-minutes.html#action02]

   <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - propose

   adambe: should be simple to use

   randell: yes of course

Bugzilla

   hta: next question: should we use bugzilla?

   adambe: talked about that earlier, makes sense to introduce now,

   justing: agree, to be used when wee start iterating on a solution.

   burn: agrees to this. Use list to start discussions, but when
   getting into details bugzilla to be used

   adambe: will be some more work (mark duplicates, policing,...),
   sometimes move stuff back to list

   <dom> (we could also use W3C's tracker, in which case we can track
   issues by mentioning their nickname (e.g. ISSUE-2))

   burn: yes, html wg has clear rules for when to move things back,
   closing items, ...

   <dom> ("mentioning" in emails sent to the list)

   justin: nice to have bugzilla to discuss details of something agreed
   to do
   ... should adopt bugzilla.

   hta: if we use bugzilla: should things proposed to bugzilla also go
   to the list

   <soohyunc> justin seems to introduce a bit of.echo while talking to
   the zakim system

   adambe: you can't just comment in a bug and expect that all have
   read it.

   dom: one way to make bugzilla part of the discussion is to post
   bugzilla discussions on the mailing list

   justin: makes sense to do that.

   hta: we have support for using bugzilla, set up in a way that all
   changes are sent to the mail list. OK?

   <dom> ACTION: Dom to configure bugzilla ofr Web RTC with activity
   sent to public mailing list [recorded in
   [16]http://www.w3.org/2011/12/15-webrtc-minutes.html#action03]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-20 - Configure bugzilla ofr Web RTC with
   activity sent to public mailing list [on Dominique Hazaël-Massieux -
   due 2011-12-22].

Media Capture TF status

   hta: finished API document status
   ... media capture TF

   <dom> ACTION: Stefan to ensure that Randell get the echo
   cancellation into the spec [recorded in
   [17]http://www.w3.org/2011/12/15-webrtc-minutes.html#action04]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-21 - Ensure that Randell get the echo
   cancellation into the spec [on Stefan Håkansson - due 2011-12-22].

   hta: set up to take care of things common between webrtc and DAP in
   terms of media capture
   ... having an active discussion
   ... much on the media stream track interface, some wanting stream
   and track to be defined by TF
   ... but chairs hesitant as there is a tight connection between
   streams, tracks and peerconnection
   ... but open for more input

   dom: I tend to agree that part of media stream api will have to be
   integrated in getusermedia
   ... not clear how we can split things out cleanly
   ... not so simple, need a specific proposal at some stage.

   hta: changes to mediastream can always be proposed to WebRTC

   dom: not only about documents, but also about getting apis that can
   be implemented and tested as standalone components

   hta: yes, and there is a strong link between the things
   ... the TF is working on a req and scenarion document
   ... not yet finished.

   <dom> [18]MediaStream Capture Scenarios

     [18]
https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/dap/raw-file/tip/media-stream-capture/scenarios.html

Action items review

   hta: any other comments on the media cap TF?
   ... move to report of status of actions
   ... first on richt to bring new use cases. overtaken by TF?

   stefanh: I think the action was to bring some AR use cases
   ... should be brought to the TF anyway

   <dom> ACTION-9: needs to be sent to the Media Capture Task Force

   <trackbot> ACTION-9 Send new use cases on getUserMedia to webRTC
   mailing-list notes added

   hta: we leave it open as the TF doesn't have a tracker

   <dom> ACTION-13?

   <trackbot> ACTION-13 -- Daniel Burnett to add Capabilities API to
   ROAP and API spec -- due 2011-12-31 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [19]http://www.w3.org/2011/04/webrtc/track/actions/13

     [19] http://www.w3.org/2011/04/webrtc/track/actions/13

   hta: add hints and stats API. burn, any comment?

   burn: not much to report, not much done yet

   <dom> ACTION-14?

   <trackbot> ACTION-14 -- Harald Alvestrand to revise Data API
   proposal and mail to list -- due 2011-11-16 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [20]http://www.w3.org/2011/04/webrtc/track/actions/14

     [20] http://www.w3.org/2011/04/webrtc/track/actions/14

   hta: revise data API

   justing: published a new version on the list, addresses some
   comments on the list
   ... looking into the Stream API proposal to see if that is
   applicable
   ... want's to see a unified way to handle media and data streams
   ... more discussion on the list.

   hta: to be incorporated in spec or not?
   ... appropriate time to put into draft
   ... would like to incorporate in spec by an editor.

   burn: only two of the editors on call.

   <hta> ACTION: hta to Incorporate data api into spec (find editor
   volunteer) [recorded in
   [21]http://www.w3.org/2011/12/15-webrtc-minutes.html#action05]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-22 - Incorporate data api into spec (find
   editor volunteer) [on Harald Alvestrand - due 2011-12-22].

   <dom> (I guess we can close ACTION-14 then?)

   <dom> ACTION-22: follow up to ACTION-14

   <trackbot> ACTION-22 Incorporate data api into spec (find editor
   volunteer) notes added

   <dom> close ACTION-14

   <trackbot> ACTION-14 Revise Data API proposal and mail to list
   closed

   <dom> ACTION-14: follow up in ACTION-22

   <trackbot> ACTION-14 Revise Data API proposal and mail to list notes
   added

   hta: look into incoming notification. Dan not on call, no update
   ... next one: identity framework connections proposal
   ... not ready yet
   ... no update
   ... next DTMF: done more or less

   justing: trying to summrize the discussions into a single api

   hta: how to know if a tracks supports dtmf or not?

   <dom> can we add a pointer to the latest proposal for DMTF? I'm not
   sure which mail it is

   <juberti> dom:
   [22]https://docs.google.com/a/google.com/document/d/1oqPfWoeq9mDAJKV
   8RStw-FVzln7HRO50gkFR0wiPjbk/edit?hl=en_US

     [22]
https://docs.google.com/a/google.com/document/d/1oqPfWoeq9mDAJKV8RStw-FVzln7HRO50gkFR0wiPjbk/edit?hl=en_US

   adambe: a track can have support for dtmf or not
   ... can it really change during run time?
   ... exceptions can be used

   stefanh: really a property of the other end, can it receive dtmf or
   not

   hta: stattus of discussion with web and tv on tracks?

   stefanh: waiting for this webrtc wg to be be more ready with this
   part before approaching web and tv IG

Next meeting

   hta: next one (add/remove tracks) already discussed
   ... next thing: next meeting. we have a f2f Feb 1st (from noon)
   ... do we need any meeting before then? I would say not.

   dom: only reason to approve a new WD

   burn: we can do that on mail

AOB

   hta: AoB. What about JSEP?

   justin: working on a draft, not ready for this call though
   ... working with mathew kaufman
   ... moving control to JS
   ... ready by end of week
   ... in draft version.

   adambe: has there any conclusions on the data api? a long time since
   we talked about it

   <juberti> Current API:
   [23]https://docs.google.com/a/google.com/document/d/16csYCaHxIYP83Dz
   CZJL7relQm2QNxT-qkay4-jLxoKA/edit?hl=en_US

     [23]
https://docs.google.com/a/google.com/document/d/16csYCaHxIYP83DzCZJL7relQm2QNxT-qkay4-jLxoKA/edit?hl=en_US

   hta: recently updated proposal

   <dom> [24]New Bugzilla product/component for Web RTC

     [24]
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/describecomponents.cgi?product=Web%20RTC%
20Working%20Group

   hta: to be discussed in bugzilla

   hta: AoB???

   <juberti> Please feel free to leave comments in the DTMF or
   DataStream docs.

   hta: thanks all for coming and see you Feb 1st

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: Dom to configure bugzilla ofr Web RTC with activity
   sent to public mailing list [recorded in
   [25]http://www.w3.org/2011/12/15-webrtc-minutes.html#action03]
   [NEW] ACTION: hta to Incorporate data api into spec (find editor
   volunteer) [recorded in
   [26]http://www.w3.org/2011/12/15-webrtc-minutes.html#action05]
   [NEW] ACTION: propose EC API on jesup [recorded in
   [27]http://www.w3.org/2011/12/15-webrtc-minutes.html#action02]
   [NEW] ACTION: randell to get the echo cancellation into the spec
   [recorded in
   [28]http://www.w3.org/2011/12/15-webrtc-minutes.html#action01]
   [NEW] ACTION: Stefan to ensure that Randell get the echo
   cancellation into the spec [recorded in
   [29]http://www.w3.org/2011/12/15-webrtc-minutes.html#action04]

   [End of minutes]
Received on Thursday, 15 December 2011 08:16:41 GMT

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