W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-webplatform@w3.org > January 2013

Minutes: Webplatform.org Community Telcon, 01-25-2013 (Today!)

From: Chris Mills <cmills@opera.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 18:14:37 +0000
Message-Id: <CF1D508D-5EA0-4510-AB60-BACA6F57A14C@opera.com>
To: "public-webplatform@w3.org" <public-webplatform@w3.org>
Actions:

ACTION: shepazu + denis to implement sitemap extension
ACTION (carried forward): eliot to edit top level landing pages
ACTION (carried forward): julee and garbee to look into installing meetbot
ACTION: Alex to sort out updating the CSS properties template to reflect Mike S's Gold standard CSS property page
ACTION: Mike S to move his static font-size example into the appropriate Wiki page
ACTION: Chris to finish writing a guide to implementing a CSS properties page
ACTION: others should try to implement a CSS property page, and use chrismills' instructions when they are finished
ACTION: determine a set of properties we know to be complex outliers, and make sure they fit with Mike's scheme, for example
	background-image (with radial gradient, linear gradient, etc)
	perspective
	transforms with multiple values set (crazy: transforms take any # of functions & assume defaults; "filter" prop takes functions in sequence)
	properties that don't have any effect unless another property is set. So for example, top, left, bottom, right don't have any effect unless you already set position: relative or position: absolute, flex and order do not have an effect unless display: flex is set
	properties that are proprietary and are only ever used with -ms- or -webkit-, for example
ACTION: Mike to work out how to specify "dependant/dependency properties"
ACTION: Scott to add an instruction in the attribution template that says "hey - don't delete this or change this unless you have a really good reason"
ACTION: Doug, Denis, Lea, work on implementing first phase of Dabblet live coding examples
ACTION: Doug to get together a task force to continue investigating an alternative to MW for our platform



Raw text:

[4:55pm]julee:shepazu: Shall we use 3627 ("DOCS")  as the log in to the meeting?
[4:55pm]shepazu:julee: yeah, it should work
[4:57pm]shepazu:julee: confirmed that it works
[4:57pm]shepazu:mirabilis!
[5:00pm]sierra_:present, but trying to find a phone that works
[5:01pm]Garbee:oh, I thought we were using the Google bridge again.
[5:01pm]Garbee:Er, whatever the main page has on it.
[5:02pm]Garbee:julee, Also, I am got about halfway through the meetbot stuff last night. So, finishing up that setup/test this afternoon.
[5:02pm]sierra_:can hear you now
[5:03pm]•jswisher is present
[5:04pm]•julee present
[5:04pm]chrismills:I'm here miss...
[5:04pm]•deniak present
[5:04pm]•Garbee IRC only.
[5:04pm]julee:Dave Gash is present
[5:04pm] jrunrandy joined the chat room.
[5:04pm]jrunrandy:Presents
[5:04pm]sierra_:present
[5:04pm]shepazu:present
[5:04pm]chrismills:jrunrandy: presents for me? 
[5:04pm]julee:Agenda 2013-01-25
[5:04pm]julee:Roll call
[5:04pm]julee:Review of open action items
[5:05pm]julee:CSS Properties
[5:05pm]julee:Pick a few for folks to try out using Mike's example.
[5:05pm]julee:Any volunteer to write up instructions based on Mike's gold standard?
[5:05pm]julee:Attributions
[5:05pm]julee:Status on code.webplatform.org?
[5:05pm]julee:CSS Properties milestones.
[5:05pm]julee:Status on "discoverability" Search Bug
[5:05pm]julee:Do we have an interim solution we can implement quickly & easily
[5:05pm]julee:We're going to put a search box on the main page
[5:05pm]julee:Analytics
[5:05pm]julee:Anything blocking you from creating great content?
[5:05pm]julee:Any new or notable content to promote?
[5:05pm]chrismills:Item 1: roll call; done
[5:05pm]chrismills:Item 2: action items open from last week
[5:05pm] cgoodman joined the chat room.
[5:05pm]scottrowe_:Present
[5:06pm]shepazu:Denis Ah-Kang
[5:06pm]chrismills:Introduction from Denis, W3C - working one day a week as sys op
[5:06pm]julee:* ACTION: Julee to send out a Doodle poll to figure out a better time. [Done]
[5:06pm]julee:* ACTION: Mike Sierra to work on making a "gold standard" example page, that others can use as a model. [DONE]
[5:06pm]julee:* LAST WEEK ACTION: Julee to update Topic Hierarchy and Architecture pages. UPDATE: need site map
[5:06pm]julee:* LAST WEEK ACTION: Eliot to do an editorial pass on the proposed top-level pages.
[5:06pm]julee:* LAST WEEK ACTION: Julee to set up meetbot. UPDATE: Garbee now has action item.
[5:06pm]julee:Eliot is present
[5:07pm]chrismills:first action: Julee sent out doodle poll - done
[5:07pm]chrismills:2nd: Mike S working on Gold standard CSS property page: done
[5:07pm]chrismills:Mike: currently in "stick a fork in it" mode 
[5:08pm]chrismills:content mostly agreed on, but some of the enhancements require quite a fair bit of template message
[5:08pm]chrismills:want to make that clear
[5:08pm]chrismills:Mike: controversy over whether to include mobileand desktop browsers in same compat table
[5:09pm]chrismills:arguments for and against
[5:09pm]Garbee:I say make it one table if we can find a logial way to show mobile vs desktop. Since they tend to share a common name across for the major ones.
[5:09pm]chrismills:table could be huge, with some edge cases
[5:09pm]Garbee:Can't remember what is being done currently in the mockup, I think it is one.
[5:09pm]chrismills:next action: Julle to update topic hierarchy + architecture
[5:09pm]chrismills:Julee*
[5:10pm]chrismills:Julee tried to generate site map
[5:10pm]shepazu:q+
[5:10pm]chrismills:e-mail out asking whether site map should be dynamic or not
[5:10pm] wpdbot left the chat room. (Remote host closed the connection)
[5:10pm]chrismills:this should be first question to resolve before we continue
[5:10pm]chrismills:progress made
[5:10pm] wpdbot joined the chat room.
[5:10pm]chrismills:shepazu: asked Julee to send mail, but also doesn't want to hold up progress
[5:11pm]chrismills:is there anyone who doesn't think we should be using a dynamic site map?
[5:11pm]chrismills:an extension would be used for this
[5:11pm]Garbee:I think we need to test the server load by going dynamic.
[5:12pm]Garbee:Use the static script for now until we see how the dynamic one affects resources.
[5:12pm]sierra_:set the delay to 1 month or the default page cache, whichever comes first
[5:12pm]chrismills:site map would be generated every month or so
[5:13pm]chrismills:to avoid too much performance degredation
[5:13pm]chrismills:shepazu: shall we go ahead and install a site map?
[5:13pm]chrismills:no disagreements, so Doug and Denis will work on this
[5:13pm]chrismills:ACTION: shepazu + denis to implement this
[5:14pm]chrismills:next action: eliot to edit top level landing pages
[5:14pm]chrismills:carried over
[5:14pm]chrismills:next action carried forward - install meetbot
[5:14pm]chrismills:garbee + julee looking into this
[5:14pm]•shepazu glad it's not meatbot
[5:14pm]Garbee:lolz
[5:14pm]chrismills:progress made, still working on it
[5:15pm]chrismills:next topic
[5:15pm]chrismills:CSS properties
[5:15pm]chrismills:try the gold standard with some other CSS properties
[5:15pm]chrismills:and get someone to write a guide to implementing a CSS property page
[5:16pm]chrismills:chrismills: has already started to do the latter
[5:16pm]chrismills:taken ownership
[5:16pm] Ryan_Lane joined the chat room.
[5:16pm]chrismills:for the first one - Mike's update is currently a static page
[5:16pm]chrismills:so this would currently be difficult
[5:16pm]chrismills:weneed to get the templates implemented before we can do this properly
[5:17pm]chrismills:shepazu: who can comment on how long the templates would take to update?
[5:17pm]chrismills:Scott is the closest we have at the meeting
[5:18pm]chrismills:Julee - wants to give Alex an action to update the templates, along with the help of others, such as fr0zenice
[5:18pm]chrismills:ACTION: Alex to sort out updating the template
[5:18pm]chrismills:ACTION: Mike S to move his static example into a Wiki page
[5:18pm]sierra_:ACTION: will push content from mockup back to WPD font-size page
[5:19pm]chrismills:who will grab some more CSS properties to try to implement?
[5:20pm]sierra_:collected suggested template enhancements here: http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/WPD:Proposals/css_prop_enhancements
[5:21pm]chrismills:chrismills has already grabbed background and the properties it is shorthand for
[5:24pm]chrismills:other immediate suggestions: margin, padding, position, color, border-related properties, etc.
[5:24pm]chrismills:other p0's are good candidates
[5:25pm]sierra_:extreme example: <input/> for compat table
[5:25pm]chrismills:ACTION: others should try to implement a CSS property page, and use chrismills' instructions when they are finished
[5:25pm]chrismills:this should be by the end of the weekend
[5:26pm]chrismills:shepazu: we should also deliberately try to do outlers as well
[5:26pm]chrismills:outliers*
[5:26pm]chrismills:to see how it breaks the template
[5:26pm]chrismills:and things take a list of values
[5:26pm]sierra_:I suggested a new "shorthand" metadata field in the mockup
[5:28pm]chrismills:ACTION: determine a set of properties we know to be complex outliers, and make sure they fit with Mike's scheme
[5:28pm]chrismills:background-image (with radial gradient, linear gradient, etc)
[5:28pm]chrismills:perspective
[5:28pm]chrismills:transforms with multiple values set
[5:29pm]sierra_:TBC, gradients are functions
[5:29pm] Ryan_Lane left the chat room. (Quit: Leaving.)
[5:29pm]chrismills:also, how about properties that don't have any effect unless another property is set. So for example, top, left, bottom, right don't have any effect unless you already set position: relative or position: absolute
[5:29pm]sierra_:example of crazy syntax: transforms take any # of functions & assume defaults; "filter" prop takes functions in sequence
[5:29pm]chrismills:flexbox also has the same problem
[5:30pm]chrismills:flex and order do not have an effect unless display: flex is set
[5:30pm]chrismills:ACTION: work out how to specify "dependant properties"
[5:30pm]sierra_:Is there a need for a "dependency" field in the metadata table?
[5:31pm]chrismills:sierra_: makes sense
[5:31pm]chrismills:dependants / dependency, depending on what point of view you are looking from
[5:32pm]sierra_:does dependencies field imply >1 possible value?
[5:33pm]chrismills:also, what about properties that only have an effect on certain devices/media, or properties that are proprietary and are only ever used with -ms- or -webkit-, for example
[5:33pm]chrismills:next item: attribution
[5:34pm]chrismills:eliot - we ought to keep this one going, so we can work out what do with attribution
[5:34pm]chrismills:in terms of how to lock it, to make sure it is not lost
[5:34pm]chrismills:(discussions that came up while discussing Doug's attribution blog post)
[5:34pm]chrismills:..crickets...
[5:34pm]sierra_:Chris, re depends  on media or device, does existing media type field cover that?
[5:35pm]chrismills:sierra_: hmmm, I guess
[5:35pm]chrismills:ok, leave it for now
[5:35pm]sierra_:unclear about cases where device is the variable rather than media type
[5:36pm]chrismills:shepazu: we want to make sure that attribution info doesn't get deleted or changed unless there is a really good reason
[5:36pm]chrismills:we should probably just add an instruction in the attribution template that says "hey - don't delete this or change this unless you have a really good reason"
[5:37pm]chrismills:ACTION: Scott to take this on
[5:37pm]chrismills:julee - why not just file a bug, for this kind of thing?
[5:37pm]Garbee:Am I clear to delete the PHP stuff that shouldn't even be in the wiki? http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/tutorials/php
[5:37pm]Garbee:^^side question
[5:38pm]chrismills:shepazu: if we can get resolution without filing a bug, then all the better
[5:38pm]chrismills:eliot: filing a bug would be the best/ideal thing to do, but we should just go an fix it, if expediency demands it
[5:38pm]chrismills:next item: code.webplatform.org - what is the progress on dabblet/embeddable code examples?
[5:39pm]chrismills:shepazu: Lea has bene on leave for a while, but should be back paart time next week
[5:39pm]chrismills:she has already done prep work
[5:39pm]chrismills:and now we have Denis to help on this stuff
[5:39pm]chrismills:so we should get the first phase installed next week
[5:40pm]chrismills:in this phase, you can access an instance of dabblet on code.webplatform.org, which you can play with
[5:40pm]chrismills:phase 2 will be so that you can click buttons next to code examples to open them in dabblet
[5:41pm]chrismills:phase 3 will be actually showing all the code examples running live, in an IFrame, inside wiki articles
[5:41pm]chrismills:shepazu: we do need to think carefully about how we manage code examples
[5:42pm]chrismills:often not all the code is supplied that is needed to run the example
[5:42pm]chrismills:Next topic: investigating moving to a different platform than Wedia Wiki
[5:42pm]chrismills:shepazu: keep doing what you are doing and don't let this distract you!
[5:42pm]chrismills:but Media wiki has it's share of frustrations
[5:43pm]chrismills:and it is worth investigating other alternatives
[5:43pm]sierra_:Side issue re "depends" field, does it overlap w/"applies to"? For "perspective", applies but is only apparent if "transform" is modified
[5:43pm]chrismills:let's not talk about this too much as yet, and not on public list
[5:44pm]chrismills:we don't want to distract or scare off people
[5:44pm]shepazu:http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/WPD:Site/Wishlist
[5:45pm]shepazu:http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/WPD:Site
[5:45pm]shepazu:http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/WPD:Site/Technical_Requirements
[5:45pm]chrismills:shepazu: have a look at this, and add things to wish list, if you are so inclined
[5:46pm]Garbee:Let's not talk on Kuma specifically just yet.
[5:46pm]Garbee:Have it as something to look at for sure.
[5:46pm]chrismills:and we will look for a better replacement
[5:46pm]Garbee:But, we should be open to any other systems that can do the job.
[5:46pm]chrismills:Scott: we can also add questions to the survey to find out people's feelings, what they would like for better usability
[5:47pm]chrismills:Julee - find out how to make it easier for people to contribute content
[5:47pm]chrismills:shepazu: we need to invite people's feedback on the CMS side of thing
[5:47pm]chrismills:s
[5:47pm]chrismills:wishlist data is fine as well
[5:47pm]chrismills:shepazu: let it serve as a feedback channel, not a distraction
[5:49pm]chrismills:julee: subitem: on IRC, we said one way to make it easier would be to allow HTML as the editing format
[5:49pm]chrismills:chrismills: was excited about this
[5:50pm]chrismills:shepazu: agrees with this entirely, and understands, but the fact is MW can't just use all HTML ok
[5:50pm]chrismills:this is one reason to look for an alternative to MW
[5:50pm]Garbee:It mainly is just anchors.
[5:50pm]Garbee:What else do we use the MW can't handle?
[5:50pm]Garbee:Or santizes out.
[5:50pm]sierra_:agree HTML is asking for trouble
[5:50pm]chrismills:shepazu: if we tell people they can use HTML, then it could lead to a world of hurt inside MW
[5:52pm]chrismills:and possibly more of a distraction
[5:52pm]chrismills:so let's hang on in there until we find something better
[5:53pm]sierra_:IMO, unstructured markup is easier to edit
[5:53pm]chrismills:migrating the content over could be really painful if there was a load of tangental HTML in there
[5:53pm]Garbee:We have been scraping HTML for ages, how difficult could it be now?
[5:53pm]chrismills:eliot: doug as admin should investigate improving the infrastructure to begin with
[5:54pm]chrismills:don't include everyone to begin with
[5:54pm] Ryan_Lane joined the chat room.
[5:54pm]chrismills:jswisher: sharing such ideas - layers of an onion
[5:54pm]chrismills:migrate out to bigger layers as suits
[5:55pm]chrismills:eliot: content is still king, regardless of the delivery platform
[5:55pm]sierra_:action item: remain dry-eyed
[5:56pm]chrismills:ACTION: Doug - get together a task force to continue investigating the alternative
[5:56pm]chrismills:next item: search bug
[5:56pm]chrismills:what is the status?
[5:57pm]chrismills:shepazu: mentioned adding a search plugin to the home page
[5:57pm]julee:https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=19401
[5:57pm] cgoodman left the chat room. (Quit: cgoodman)
[5:58pm]chrismills:Investigation to be continued
[5:58pm]chrismills:final agenda item: anything blocking us from creating great content?
[5:59pm]Garbee:Session issues appear to be gone now, so there is one major thing down.
[5:59pm]chrismills:the session bug has gone for some people, and at least improved
[5:59pm]chrismills:dave gash: still gets it occasionally, but it has improved
[5:59pm]sierra_:my #1 blocker for great content is live in-page samples
[5:59pm]Garbee:My main thing recently is time. 
[6:00pm]Garbee:Trying to work on the Beginners Guide this weekend though.
[6:00pm]Garbee:After Meetbot is hopefully sorted.
[6:00pm]chrismills:Meatbot 
[6:00pm]scottrowe_:Zachim ended the telecon, it seems.
[6:00pm]Garbee:Oh, and hoping I still have power/internet access.
[6:01pm]Garbee:Snow storm started a while ago here.
[6:01pm]chrismills:julee has got a couple of bugs: sometimes refresh is forced causing problems, sometimes is given a malicious actions message

Chris Mills
Opera Software, dev.opera.com
W3C Fellow, web education and webplatform.org
Author of "Practical CSS3: Develop and Design" (http://goo.gl/AKf9M)

On 25 Jan 2013, at 15:39, Doug Schepers <schepers@w3.org> wrote:

> Hi, folks-
> 
> Our new telcon time will be today, Friday, at the regular time, 17:00 UTC / 12:00 ET / 9:00 PT, on the regular phone line and IRC channel [1].
> 
> Julee chair the call... can I get a volunteer to scribe?
> 
> Agenda:
> * TBD
> 
> [1] http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/WPD:Meetings
>    https://www.w3.org/Guide/1998/08/teleconference-calendar#s_5187
> 
> Regards-
> -Doug
Received on Friday, 25 January 2013 18:15:23 UTC

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