W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-webplatform@w3.org > November 2012

Re: Template limits and server loads

From: Taylor Costello <nottaylorcostello@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2012 07:44:14 -0800
Message-Id: <B99CA5A7-F3EE-4F26-9D2E-8D0951AFA2B8@gmail.com>
Cc: "public-webplatform@w3.org" <public-webplatform@w3.org>
To: Jonathan Garbee <jonathan@garbee.me>
Also I'm not really sure what it is exactly that you're making, but if it's a table in wiki markup for example. Switch it to HTML, it's not going to have any styling like wiki markup does so go to MediaWiki:Common.css (paste at end of URL after /wiki/) and make up a class and add CSS to make it pretty.

You can only edit the common.css if you're a admin.

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 4, 2012, at 7:26 AM, Jonathan Garbee <jonathan@garbee.me> wrote:

> Well, what is the alternative to {{!}}?  We are using that to replace a | character which breaks output.
> 
> -Garbee
> 
> On 11/4/2012 10:23 AM, Taylor Costello wrote:
>> The template limit is usually 10,000 (you can find the exact number on MediaWiki's site) or so by default. It can be customized or even removed but I am unsure if Doug (shepazu) or anyone changed it. Metatemplates are especially dangerous because when used on the article they are generally used multiple times. I caught one page with 15 {{!}} on it, which will obviously add up quickly. MediaWiki has a lot of wacky features like this to prevent heavy server loads that are not clearly presented to editors so usually no one notices until the wiki blows up. If it happens, we'll be forced to sort through every bad page and remove them. Not only will it categorize the pages in MediaWiki warning categories, but it will break every template on the page to prevent the limit being passed.
>> 
>> Luckily, {{!}} is a very short template and not particularly heavy but it would be best to prune the pages now before it's too late.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Nov 4, 2012, at 3:05 AM, frozenice <frozenice@frozenice.de> wrote:
>> 
>>> What Taylor means by "on pages" is that metatemplates (like {{!}}) are used in normal article text, additionally to their intented use as template parameter values.
>>> 
>>> Using them in normal text is, of course, not necessary and thus creates superfluous server load and pushes pages towards template limits.
>>> 
>>> You can't avoid using them in template parameters, tmk. I don't know exactly what the limits on parameter values are, I'll hand it back to Taylor from here. ;)
>>> 
>>> On 04.11.2012 08:06, PhistucK wrote:
>>>> I think I was unclear. "Template value" is probably what you call "on pages".
>>>> 
>>>> For example -
>>>> {{Notes_Section
>>>> |Import_Notes=
>>>> {{{!}} class="wikitable"
>>>> {{!}}-
>>>> !Property
>>>> !Description
>>>> {{!}}-
>>>> {{!}}[[dom/properties/constructor|'''constructor''']]
>>>> {{!}}Returns a reference to the constructor of an object.
>>>> {{!}}}
>>>> }}
>>>> 
>>>> The red text (the value of Import_Notes) is a "template value".
>>>> Sometimes, there are huge tables. Is that fine?
>>>> 
>>>> ☆*PhistucK*
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Sun, Nov 4, 2012 at 1:56 AM, Taylor Costello <nottaylorcostello@gmail.com <mailto:nottaylorcostello@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>    Yeah, the huge issue isn't putting it on the templates, it's being used a lot on pages which will be a problem later. I realize there is no way around it in templates often but
>>>>    on pages it will become a problem due to the limits. You don't want to put metatemplates on pages unless it's absolutely necessary for this reason. ;;
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>    On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 <tel:2012> at 1:29 PM, PhistucK <phistuck@gmail.com <mailto:phistuck@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>        Every template value that features a table is going to use lots of instances of this template.
>>>>        This might be a bug in MediaWiki, or intentional behavior, but this is how it is.
>>>> 
>>>>        ☆*PhistucK*
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>        On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 <tel:2012> at 8:20 PM, Taylor Costello <nottaylorcostello@gmail.com <mailto:nottaylorcostello@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>            Hi everyone!
>>>> 
>>>>            I've noticed on some pages, people are using Template:! when they don't need to. Please keep in mind that if you don't need to use the piping template, then don't, it's
>>>>            usually only needed if the coding is clashing with the wiki markup, otherwise just using wiki markup should work fine. Try testing wiki markup before resorting to the
>>>>            template (by using the preview button). Most wikis have template limits, and once you go over them, any page with Template:! on it is going to break and be sorted into
>>>>            a bad category via MediaWiki, it also goops up the servers and causes a very heavy load.
>>>> 
>>>>            Of course, if our wiki (Docs) has no template limits, this doesn't really matter, but using a template when you don't need to still causes a lot of unnecessary load.
>>>> 
>>>>            *Try wiki markup first, use work-around templates second.*
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
> 
> 
Received on Sunday, 4 November 2012 15:44:46 UTC

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