Re: WPWG On NOT abandoning the CG specs (was Re: Update on Web Payments Working Group)

On 26 September 2016 at 15:06, Timothy Holborn <timothy.holborn@gmail.com>
wrote:

> A left field Example; If tooling for burning unique ids into products,
> perhaps using open badge based solutions were made available to MFG's,
> alternatives to traditional currency may end-up being a result. A bit like
> barter...
>
> A lot of MFG is based in parts of the world where access to VISA (as an
> example) alongside Internet and electricity is relatively low.
>
> So, therein is an opportunity where business models of today still fail to
> support basic humanitarian advancement.
>
> This in-turn looks a little more like the credentials methods than the
> bitmark related methods, mind, I see a blend of great ideas being the most
> useful for vulnerable people...
>
> Finding one person who can supply attribution is likely easier than
> putting a card in the hands of every person on the planet. Already buskers
> are struggling in a cash-less society, so it's not like the service density
> is improving with tech. Advancement at present, IMHO.


I find the humanitarian use case a very compelling example of where the web
can potentially add value in new ways.


>
>
> On Mon, 26 Sep 2016 at 10:56 PM, Melvin Carvalho <melvincarvalho@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 5 April 2016 at 23:05, Manu Sporny <msporny@digitalbazaar.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 04/04/2016 06:49 AM, Melvin Carvalho wrote:
>>> > Lastly, please please please, dont abandon the CG specifications.
>>> > They are some of the best work anywhere.  In a sense the CG is in
>>> > some ways ahead of the WG at this point.
>>>
>>> We have no intention of abandoning the concepts in the CG
>>> specifications. We will fight for the consensus positions of this group
>>> - level playing field, financial inclusion, innovative ecosystem, etc.
>>>
>>> The recent scuffle in the Web Payments Working Group is not the end. A
>>> decision was made to use the Microsoft/Google specification as the base
>>> specification for the Web Payments Browser API. We have the ability to
>>> change those specifications. One approach is by submitting
>>> counter-specifications like this:
>>>
>>> https://github.com/w3c/webpayments/pull/115
>>>
>>> Another approach is for people from this community to pick an issue to
>>> fight for/against and move that particular item forward:
>>>
>>> https://github.com/w3c/browser-payment-api/issues
>>
>>
>> Great!
>>
>> The way I see it there are three webs, and three payments webs:
>>
>> Roughly speaking:
>>
>> The Web 1.0 era (c. 1990-2000) is about web sites.  A typical payments
>> solution would be a banking site or paypal.  This is a model that's works
>> well on the web and can be standardized in a fairly predictable way by
>> identifying common pain points, use case and creating uniform APIs.
>> Definitely a pls.
>>
>> The Web 2.0 era (c. 2000-2010) is more about web pages.  Typically this
>> allows a page to be a first class citizen of the web and dynamically access
>> the network and update itself.  This has lead to patterns (primarily AJAX)
>> that allow remote interaction.  Payments now can be done in the browser
>> sandbox within a page, but in a very similar fashion to web 1.0, however
>> without page reloads.  Similarly it makes sense for the WG to standardize
>> this work and create APIs.
>>
>> The web 3.0 era (c. 2010-2020+) is about data.  Data, and particularly
>> linked data, on the web becomes a first class citizen.  This is a
>> fundamentally different model, but also one that very few people have yet
>> to understand.  It is in a sense a more distributed and decentralized model
>> of the web in line with the original vision.  Payments in this paradigm
>> new, exciting, and very powerful, and can solve use cases existing and not
>> yet imagined to date.  It can also handle all existing use cases via
>> bootstrapping.  In this sense it's very similar to technologies like
>> bitcoin.  It also covers a lot of the work done with JSON LD which deals
>> with first class data primitives on the web.
>>
>> While it's valuable to try and modernize the work going on in the WG
>> which is really revolved around web 1.0/2.0 technologies imho, it seems
>> there is a political will do dumb things down to much that independent web
>> developers are struggling to have their use cases addressed.
>>
>> It's common at the IETF to view a specification and have in your mind
>> what future versions of that spec will look like.
>>
>> So Id like to work on essentially W3C Web Payments NEXT, without waiting
>> for the modernization of the vendor payments system, shopping cart
>> experience, choosing a credit card, and other nice things the WG is doing,
>> but have relatively little relevance to the exciting modern internet
>> payments phenomena.  I think the WG has dropped the ball, for various
>> reasons on this one, but will possibly still have useful deliverables.
>> Let's anticipate that, make it the best it can be, and perhaps look toward
>> the next version of payments which can bootstrap the old and create a whole
>> new era of use cases on the web ...
>>
>> I've spent a lot of time doing infrastructure and plumbing work for
>> this.  Im now ready to actually code stuff on top, and integrate it into
>> real world payments workflows and live crypto currencies.
>>
>> I'd really like to take the recommendations here, and in the block chain
>> community group to make very exciting payments workflows, in live systems,
>> and incorporate existing useful workflows.
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> > I think there is a compelling case to be made though interoperable
>>> > implementations.  Im hoping to spend the next 3 quarters of this
>>> > year working on some.  This can often be a better way of convincing
>>> > people than simply a specification ...
>>>
>>> Agreed. Implementations matter. Digital Bazaar will be doing an
>>> implementation of the Web Payments HTTP API and the hope is that
>>> provides a counter-weight to some of the Browser API design decisions.
>>>
>>> -- manu
>>>
>>> --
>>> Manu Sporny (skype: msporny, twitter: manusporny, G+: +Manu Sporny)
>>> Founder/CEO - Digital Bazaar, Inc.
>>> blog: The Web Browser API Incubation Anti-Pattern
>>> http://manu.sporny.org/2016/browser-api-incubation-antipattern/
>>>
>>>

Received on Monday, 26 September 2016 13:10:17 UTC