Re: The Payments Architecture within which a Web Payments Architecture occurs

RE: "Getting deeply involved in standards setting organizations that take a
decade per cycle is largely a non-starter. We re-use the work they have,
but have no hope of being able to steer the ISO/ITU ship on any time
frame that is relevant to the speed at which the Web moves."

I understand what you mean (albeit your charicature is something of an
exaggeration, surely). I'm simply saying that AFAICT there's no need to try
to tweak or expand standards like OASIS/UBL, or the UNICTRAL WG-IV Model
Laws or the BIS/PFMI to accommodate anything and everything I've seen in
the past year of W3C WP goals discussion. Those standards are all good
enough. Just use them.   ...yes it is hard work.

What I am saying is that the W3C WP work would be (much!) simpler and
faster if this community would just off-load everthing that belongs to the
Ontology of Payments and that that of e-Commerce generally to the entities
that actually own those mandates, and (sorry to be boring!) stick to
knitting the Web.

RE: "At a practical level, where is this abstracted "Payments Architecture"
document that we can reference?

The business architecture is referenced in my previous email: "Principles
for Financial Market Infrastructures" from the Bank of International
Settlements http://www.bis.org/cpmi/info_pfmi.htm?m=3|16|598

Actually, it turns out to be convenient that the US Fed's "Faster Payments
Task Force" on 15-16 June meets immediately prior (indeed I'd say
"meaningfully overlapping" for a day) to the W3C WP IG's meeting of 16-18
June. Hopefully the FPTF meeting's outcomes will provide directly useful
input to the W3C meeting. That's the logically correct directionality:
business req's first, then technology.  Yes, of course technology is itself
a driver, but the people maintaining these global standards at UNICTRAL,
OASIS, BIS etc are hardly luddites.

Joseph Potvin
Operations Manager | Gestionnaire des opérations
The Opman Company | La compagnie Opman
jpotvin@opman.ca
Mobile: 819-593-5983





On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 11:35 PM, Manu Sporny <msporny@digitalbazaar.com>
wrote:

> On 05/14/2015 10:59 AM, Joseph Potvin wrote:
> > The issue that I'm raising is that a "Payments Architecture" in
> > general is orthogonal to the "Architecture of the World Wide Web".
>
> Yes it is.
>
> > Any architecture for "web mediated payments" needs to reference a
> > Payments Architecture that is abstracted from whatever media are
> > employed.
>
> At a theoretical level, I agree with you.
>
> At a practical level, where is this abstracted "Payments Architecture"
> document that we can reference?
>
> ISO20022 is the only thing that comes close, IMHO, and even that is
> expressed as high-level Business Processes (which we intend to map to at
> some point), and not an "Architecture".
>
> > And any architecture for "web mediated e-commerce" needs to
> > reference an Commerce Architecture that is abstracted from whatever
> > media are employed.
>
> Where is this "Commerce Architecture" documented?
>
> Here's where I think consensus in the Web Payments IG is right now (but
> don't take it as anything other than my personal opinion):
>
> * Other groups exist that create Financial Industry standards as well
>   as standards that affect the financial industry.
> * Other groups exist that create laws that regulate the Financial
>   Industry.
> * The WPIG will liaise with those groups where it makes sense to do so.
>   For example, we actively pursued a formal liaison relationship
>   between the group and ISO as well as ANSI / X9 for the financial
>   industry standards.
> * The WPIG doesn't want to re-invent the wheel and will re-use existing
>   standards where it makes sense to do so.
> * The WPIG would like to avoid slowing the work down by requiring
>   agreement across multiple standard setting organizations to make
>   progress.
>
> This is a balance and we're trying to get real work done on a
> fantastically aggressive timeframe. We're supposed to be "done" with the
> first cut of the architecture by September 2015.
>
> Getting deeply involved in standards setting organizations that take a
> decade per cycle is largely a non-starter. We re-use the work they have,
> but have no hope of being able to steer the ISO/ITU ship on any time
> frame that is relevant to the speed at which the Web moves.
>
> I also don't think there is a single "Payments Architecture" document
> out there that we could refer to, so I don't think what you're asking
> for is possible. I may be wrong, and if I am, please point us to this
> general "Payments Architecture" document.
>
> -- manu
>
> --
> Manu Sporny (skype: msporny, twitter: manusporny, G+: +Manu Sporny)
> Founder/CEO - Digital Bazaar, Inc.
> blog: The Marathonic Dawn of Web Payments
> http://manu.sporny.org/2014/dawn-of-web-payments/
>
>


-- 

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