W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-webpayments@w3.org > September 2014

Re: Apple Pay

From: Adrian Hope-Bailie <adrian@hopebailie.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 10:51:19 +0200
Message-ID: <CA+eFz_+XOObiX2bH9kx_9iCZHVmzYskTacf1Aoj4sMRkxO9=ow@mail.gmail.com>
To: Daniel Harris <daniel@kendra.org.uk>
Cc: Melvin Carvalho <melvincarvalho@gmail.com>, Stephane Corlosquet <scorlosquet@gmail.com>, Web Payments <public-webpayments@w3.org>
The US will unfortunately have to catch up with the rest of the world
eventually on this front.
POS and ATM devices capable of reading chip cards (i.e. supporting EMV)
have been the norm in most of the rest of the world for years.
NFC is already ubiquitous in many countries too, the UK and Australia among
them.

Apple Pay should only be a surprise to US consumers who (as usual) will
think Apple have invented something magical when on the contrary they have
adopted (and thereby given their blessing upon) standard payment technology
used all over the world.

The $500 price tag in that article is also quite inflated.
In my experience at tier 1 retailers in South Africa the big hardware
manufacturers such as Verifone and Ingenico drop their pricing dramatically
to win the business.
(Also note that big tier 1 retailers in South Africa are dwarfs in
comparison to the likes of Walmart etc in the US).
That is also ignoring the MANY other device manufacturers in Europe and the
east.

As a benchmark, it is possible today to get an mPOS device supporting chip
and pin and NFC for under $100.
Plug that into a tablet and you have a fully functional POS system.

Also, I would be very surprised if these manufacturers didn't sell the
retailers devices that can easily be upgraded to support NFC (if they don't
already) when they started rolling out devices with chip and PIN
capabilities to deal with the 2015 EMV mandate.
Any large retailer that made the significant capital outlay to roll out EMV
and completely ignored the possibility of needing to support NFC is plain
foolish.

On 15 September 2014 11:05, Daniel Harris <daniel@kendra.org.uk> wrote:

> On 15 Sep 2014, at 09:48, Melvin Carvalho <melvincarvalho@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > On 9 September 2014 19:57, St├ęphane Corlosquet <scorlosquet@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> Apple just introduced Apple Pay in their live event at
> http://live.arstechnica.com/apples-september-9-2014-event/
> >>
> >> Quoting:
> >> Our mission is to replace your wallet, starting by focusing on payments.
> >> ...
> >> Digging for your cards is antiquated.
> >> The magnetic stripe interface is outdated and insecure.
> >> Most people who have worked on this have started with a self-interested
> business model and worked outwards..
> >> We've created a new payment process called Apple Pay
> >> ...
> >> Apple Pay is built into every iPhone 6 and 6 Plus using NFC, the
> standard for mobile payments.
> >> A new chip called the Secure Element stores your payment info encrypted
> and securely.
> >> ...
> >> Now, with just a touch, you've paid.
> >> ...
> >> When you add a new card, we don't store the number, and we don't give
> it to the merchant.
> >> You get a device-only number protected by the secure element.
> >> Every transaction generates a one-time code that is used.
> >> You can suspend payments using Find My iPhone, since it doesn't
> directly use your card there's no need to cancel it.
> >> ...
> >> Apple doesn't know what you buy, where you buy it, or how much you paid.
> >> Cashier doesn't even see your name, credit card number, or security
> code.
> >> ...
> >> Starting in the US with AmEx, MasterCard, Visa.
> >> Also supported by a number of banks, 83% of all credit card volume in
> the US.
> >> You can use it in 220,000 stores that already support contactless
> payments, also working with Macy's, Bloomingdale's, Wallgreens, Staples,
> Subway, other stores.
> >
> > Note:
> http://www.dumb-out.net/apple-pay-takes-major-hit-wal-mart-best-buy-will-use-system/6515
> >
> > Wal-Mart and Best Buy announced that they would not be implementing the
> scanners necessary for Apple Pay to be used in their stores. Apple Pay uses
> a near field communication (NFC) to connect with the latest iPhone to allow
> the user to make purchases from the device instead of using a card.
> >
> > The primary arguments against using NFC is cost. After the Apple keynote
> announcement that the new iPhone 6 and Apple Watch would be equipped with
> the tap to pay technology, a flood of inquiries came into installers of the
> hardware as to the cost of acquiring and maintaining the necessary
> equipment required to service these customers. News that each individual
> unit would cost around $500 to purchase, not to mention install and
> maintain, quickly disenfranchised many retailers that could not afford the
> high buy in price for the new technology.
>
> Do they have a choice? Apple seems to have chosen its moment well.
> Interesting case of how technologies get implemented when legislation
> 'eases' adoption...
>
> "Many retailers are currently in the process of updating their
> point-of-sale hardware, as an upcoming change will see merchants that do
> not support EMV credit cards being liable for fraudulent, lost, and stolen
> cards. EMV credit cards, also known as "chip cards," include integrated
> circuits to authenticate debit and credit card purchases. The updated point
> of sale systems with EMV card support being adopted by retailers also
> generally include NFC, which means Apple Pay may work even at stores that
> have not specifically chosen to support the service."
>
> Source: http://www.macrumors.com/2014/09/12/more-apple-pay-details/
>
> Cheers Daniel
>
>
>
Received on Tuesday, 16 September 2014 08:51:51 UTC

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