W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-webpayments@w3.org > September 2014

Mobile Payments in Chinese Markets [WAS: Update: Five Attributes of Payment]

From: Joseph Potvin <jpotvin@opman.ca>
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2014 04:49:45 -0400
Message-ID: <CAKcXiSrX3buG-XZfPBcF+grVXB8WXyRkiTd8X482jSZhFfhVPQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Emil Chan <cnemil@gmail.com>, Web Payments CG <public-webpayments@w3.org>
RE: "After reading the thread of messages in the charter, I found that
quite a few innovations mentioned are already realized and being used in
China on daily basis."

Emile, The main purpose of the work here is to reach a globally-relevant
consensus specification relating to web payment innovations that are
"already realized and being used" inconsistently amongst market areas.

RE: "it will be a pity if the future payment practice ended up like the
current internet world - Internet and the Chinese Walled Internet"

This is one of the reasons that the draft charter [1] for a W3C Interest
Group makes reference to UNCITRAL [2] for its Working Group on Electronic
Commerce [3]. UNCITRAL is a key forum for inter-jurisdictional trade law,
where the sorts of inter-jurisdictional walls you refer to are worked out.
I suggest that the reasons for such walls, and the trade law solutions to
them, are relevant to, but beyond the scope of a W3C interest group on web
payments. Or do I misunderstand your meaning?

[1] http://www.w3.org/2014/04/payments/webpayments_charter.html
[2] http://www.uncitral.org/
[3]
http://www.uncitral.org/uncitral/en/commission/working_groups/4Electronic_Commerce.html

RE: "I am happy to share my experience about of Chinese mobile payment
development to the group if you are interested."

I think people on the Web Payments Community Group list would be interested
in specifics.

-- 
Joseph Potvin
Operations Manager | Gestionnaire des opérations
The Opman Company | La compagnie Opman
jpotvin@opman.ca
Mobile: 819-593-5983


On Sun, Aug 31, 2014 at 9:12 PM, Emil Chan <cnemil@gmail.com> wrote:

> Sorry for being silent in the past couple of months as I was extremely
> busy in working on my lecturing and consulting business in mobile payment
> for Chinese banks and mainland Chinese postgraduate students of HK
> University.
>
> After reading the thread of messages in the charter, I found that quite a
> few innovations mentioned are already realized and being used in China on
> daily basis.  If you have read King's Bank 3.0, you may agree very much
> with him on the trends his mentioned. However, he overlooked the potentials
> of the crouching tiger in the East although he covered the bank business in
> Hong Kong and Singapore and Alipay of Alibaba that will probably be one of
> the largest IPOs in US.  The most significant omission is Tencent's Wechat
> which is not only a messaging system but also a social network platform
> initially.  Under a careful plan of migrating their old QQ customers on to
> Wechat and linked the mobile account with bank account early this year,
> they are the 2nd largest mobile payment platform in China only second to
> Alipay these days..  They have already realized quite a few O2O projects
> with seamless payment experience.
> I am writing to the group as I think it will be a pity if the future
> payment practice ended up like the current internet world - Internet and
> the Chinese Walled Internet.
> What are your thoughts?
>
> I am happy to share my experience about of Chinese mobile payment
> development to the group if you are interested.
>
> Sent from my iPhone 5s
> Cheers:)
> Emil Chan
>
> On 1 Sep, 2014, at 1:36, Melvin Carvalho <melvincarvalho@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> On 31 August 2014 19:15, Joseph Potvin <jpotvin@opman.ca> wrote:
>
>> Comment invited...
>>
>> My paper to the April workshop in Paris focused on three attributes of
>> payment. http://www.w3.org/2013/10/payments/papers/
>>
>> Further discussion and research on this topic (including research in
>> economics and law towards my doctoral dissertation at U Quebec), as well as
>> consideration of various ideas raised on these lists, has led me to include
>> five attributes.
>>
>> Below is a concise (draft) statement of the scope of my dissertation
>> which lists five attributes of payment that are subject to determination
>> either by the payees and payers themselves, or by payments intermediaties
>> and law-makers. The issues raised here are equally relevant to the scope of
>> a W3C payments specification as they are to the model I'm in the process of
>> developing as a free/libre/open extension to MASON > Lagom > regiO [1]. The
>> dissertation work (incl the excerpt below) is licenesed CC-BY 4.0, and all
>> related software components and dependencies are under various
>> free/libre/open works (FLOW) licenses.  (What I'm posting here is also
>> dual-licensed now under the W3C Community Contributor License Agreement.)
>>
>> I share this for consideration towards the emerging web payments
>> specification, and of course I invite any feedback, advice and
>> collaboration towards the development of the modeling extensions, which can
>> be a useful platform for web payment specification scenarios testing well
>> beyond the particular questions I am focusing on.
>>
>
> Thanks for sharing.  I'll give my understanding of the answers to your
> questions, but it's just my opinions ...
>
>
>>
>> ***
>>
>> "The present research is concerned with the following compound question
>> in the realm of payments:
>>
>> *Are **fair and efficient market operations, **and** open market system
>> integrity, **enhanced or eroded **whe**n **project managers **are* *free
>> to exercise choice in **specifying* *through **their contracts, **all**
>> attributes of payment? *
>>
>> The scope of this research project is to develop an analytical structure
>> and some extensions to a formal model to test this question in relation
>> to five attributes of payment. Each of the five are identified
>> (underline) and illustrated with sample considerations as follows:
>>
>>    1.
>>
>>    *S**cal**ar **quantity* (e.g. 10.99; 0.0001099—*Can the parties *
>>    *specify* *micro payments **to **their** chosen** number of decimal
>>    places**?*) *Can **contracting **parties **to **implement **algorithmic
>>    pricing **to their chosen specifications**? *;
>>
>>
> Yes.  xsd decimal is arbitrary precision
>
> http://www.datypic.com/sc/xsd/t-xsd_decimal.html
>
>
>>
>>    1.
>>
>>     2.
>>
>>    *U**nit-of-account* (e.g. $ £ € ¥ etc.—*Are contracting parties free
>>    to **price and pay in** their **unit**s* *of choice? **Can the unit**
>>    of payment** be **one that is self-defined** by the contracting
>>    parties, and/or **can it be from a non-traditional provider**?**)*;
>>
>>
> Yes currency is anyURI or a 3 letter ISO code.
>
>
>>
>>    1.
>>
>>     2.
>>
>>    *V**alue-in-exchange benchmark* (e.g. WM Reuters Spot Exchange Index;
>>    Purchasing Power Parity Index; Commodity Index; Earth Reserve Index, etc.—
>>    *Can** contracting parties benchmark **the scalar quantity of **payment
>>    to **any** market factors they deem to be relevant **to the *
>>    *duration** and **object** of the contract**?*);
>>
>>
> If someone can create a URI out if it then sure.  Indexes are not always
> 100% accurate tho.
>
>
>>
>>    1.
>>
>>     2.
>>
>>    *Transaction** depositories* (eg physical wallet; digital wallet;
>>    digital bank account, etc.—*Do contracting parties have the ability
>>    to decide **upon and control **the origin and destination nodes for
>>    their payments?*); and,
>>
>>
> Source and origin are again anyURI so it can be anything.
>
>
>>
>>    1.
>>
>>     2.
>>
>>    *M**edium-of-exchange* (e.g. debit card, credit card, giro, cash, etc.
>>    —*Are media-of-exchange options documented effectively to enable
>>    informed user choice? Do contracting parties have **practical **access
>>    to choice **amongst **medi**a**-of-exchange?*)"
>>
>>
>> Source: Potvin, J. 2014 (Draft, unpub.) Free/Libre/Open World Market
>> Payment: Project Arrangements and Their Emergent Effects. Draft doctoral
>> disseration, Département des sciences administratives, Université du
>> Québec. Email: academic—potj09@uqo.ca; professional—jpotvin@opman.ca
>>
>> [1]
>> MASON http://cs.gmu.edu/~eclab/projects/mason/manual.pdf
>> Lagom
>> http://diva-model.net/fileadmin/ecf-documents/publications/ecf-working-papers/mandel-fuerst-lass-meissner-jaeger__ecf-working-paper_2009-01.pdf
>> regiO http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1364815213000029
>>
>>
>> --
>> Joseph Potvin
>> Operations Manager | Gestionnaire des opérations
>> The Opman Company | La compagnie Opman
>> jpotvin@opman.ca <jpotvin@opman..ca>
>> Mobile: 819-593-5983
>>
>
>
Received on Monday, 1 September 2014 08:50:34 UTC

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