W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-webpayments@w3.org > April 2014

Re: Concrete contribution to Web Payments

From: Anders Rundgren <anders.rundgren.net@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2014 12:33:28 +0200
Message-ID: <5347C4F8.9050508@gmail.com>
To: Tim Holborn <timothy.holborn@gmail.com>
CC: Web Payments CG <public-webpayments@w3.org>, Melvin Carvalho <melvincarvalho@gmail.com>
You raise a lot of relevant questions but I would be a liar if I said that I have an answer to all of them.

I'm basically a "platform guy" and the universal problem is of course making a platform useful for many purposes but without getting bogged down by edge-cases.

I have used three applications which I have insights in as "input" for the platform namely 3D Secure payments using PKI-enabled clients, eGovernment web signature applications, and general X.509-based user authentication.

If this is enough is simply beyond my current knowledge.
I believe the crossing between the platform and applications is one of the most interesting things for our future work.
This is also pretty difficult since application builders and platform-makers have quite different agendas.  They don't even have the same "lingo" :-)


On 2014-04-11 10:39, Tim Holborn wrote:
> there’s a bunch of use-cases; where the existing TLS WebID (x.509v3) could be issued to a machine rather than a person (agent for machine, by relating owner to machine perhaps) then associate to other accounts as ‘guests’ or whatever.
> but this still means it’s difficult to identify the individual in-front of the machine. can use multiple online devices, but simply ‘something you have’ make some sense.  Having a tag that’s got both a QR-CODE and NFC Chip is one means; another is perhaps creating a relationship between a personal device (like a phone) and the web-browser in use (i.e. a desktop / laptop) 
> a practical application might also include methods to provide receipts to/from NFC/QRCode tagged loyalty programs; most older POS systems run on XP / windows.  might be a useful alternative / method for parsing ‘loyalty’ info securely, especially in RWW types of situations (user holds their own data in their own account somewhere).
> are you considering perhaps in the back of your mind somewhere; that perhaps part of the needs assessment for Web-payments is working code.  therein, your already working on something and perhaps we could get our heads together to figure out integration / use-cases?? 
> happy to help in any case.  interested in the project for sure. 
> On 11 Apr 2014, at 7:27 pm, Anders Rundgren <anders.rundgren.net@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 2014-04-11 09:32, Tim Holborn wrote:
>>> Anders, 
>>> cheer-up… 
>> :-) :-)
>>> I imagine the thing can be NFC / 2D Barcode (QR-code (for example) compliant? 
>> This scheme is web-based.  Assuming that you can receive a URL with
>> (for example) a payment request over NFC it is compliant.
>>> Have you spoken to melvin about it?
>> Not yet.
>>> Why not chrome too? 
>> It is a resource issue.  I'm essentially only *one* person :-)
>> In addition, Google have a magnitude more resources to throw on things
>> they find useful than Mozilla.  If they Google don't find a thing useful
>> they won't accept it either even if it is free, tested etc.
>>> What’s the best forum to continue the discussion..? 
>> I don't anticipate any discussions on this thing until it is shipping.  Mozilla
>> have declared that they are uninterested discussing specs, they want code.
>> There are also very few people who have the technical background needed to
>> understand why you cannot directly expose a smart card to the web.  W3C is
>> trying to do that: http://opoto.github.io/secure-element and IMO this scheme
>> suffers from a truckload of issues as well as no voiced support from "the big three".
>>> does this relate specifically to web-payments?
>>> sounds like a WebID Related method to me… 
>> This is thing.  Universal often means "useless for all" but I believe
>> this scheme actually is equally useful for payments as for WebID.
>>> does this mean i’m the first moral contributor?> :)
>> Indeed it does :-)
>> Anders
>>> On 11 Apr 2014, at 6:25 pm, Anders Rundgren <anders.rundgren.net@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Pardon me if I have used too much list bandwidth to express my somewhat pessimistic
>>>> view on W3C's ability "upgrading" the payment world.
>>>> To make you feel slightly happier (?), I can report that I'm in the *very* early phases of
>>>> implementing a browser extension in Firefox which combines smart card technology
>>>> and Web Crypto which have multiple uses including payments:
>>>> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=978867
>>>> This project has to date no moral, monetary, or technical support from anybody.
>>>> I haven't even been able to get constructive feedback on the concept itself.
>>>> My hope is that Mozilla will include the code (when ready...) in the shipping browser
>>>> but this is one of the many hurdles we are facing today: Browser vendor support.
>>>> Open Source is by no means a guarantee for success!
>>>> Cheers
>>>> Anders
Received on Friday, 11 April 2014 10:34:20 UTC

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.3.1 : Tuesday, 6 January 2015 21:03:36 UTC