Re: Cert Ontology and WebKeys (Re: WebID History - is also: Webid Editor/Author issue)

On 3 Jun 2013, at 14:54, Melvin Carvalho <melvincarvalho@gmail.com> wrote:

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> On 3 June 2013 14:43, Henry Story <henry.story@bblfish.net> wrote:
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> On 3 Jun 2013, at 14:24, Melvin Carvalho <melvincarvalho@gmail.com> wrote:
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> >
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> > On 3 June 2013 14:15, Henry Story <henry.story@bblfish.net> wrote:
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> > On 3 Jun 2013, at 14:11, Melvin Carvalho <melvincarvalho@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> I think the core WebID identity spec remains largely consistent in both cases.
> >>
> >> So which ontology you use depends on your needs.
> >>
> >> If you want to guarantee auth over x.509 with rsa and foaf, you can use Henry's ontology
> >>
> >> If you want to guarantee auth / signing / encryption / payments use manu's
> >
> > What is the URL of the ontology? I can't find it.
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> > There's more than one linked from https://payswarm.com/specs/source/web-keys/
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> > But I think the main one that should be interesting is:
> >
> > https://w3id.org/security
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> That seems to be it.
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> I can't read JSON-LD yet, so I can't comment on the ontology. It would be nice
> if they had content negotiation and served different representation.
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> JSON LD is last call to be a REC, so it's worth understanding.  You wouldn't want unkind people here calling you a noob :P
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> http://json-ld.org/primer/latest/

I'll wait till I get somet time, then I'll write a parser for it. How is that? 

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> A couple of things:
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>   1. I note that they refer to the foaf ontology. So I have no idea why in your previous mail you
>       were arguing that Manu could not work with us because of the foaf ontology
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> Sure, there's a difference to referring to something in an example, and mandating it, as the domain of cert:key does, and that is the predicate used in the sparql in the spec.  I think the sec ontology just leaves the domain blank, which is more flexible imho.  Didnt a wise man once say, dont constrain unless you need to constrain :)

Please stop it, it's really getting tiring! I told you we needed a relation from a WebID (which is defined as a URI
referring to an agen) to a key. So we do need to constrain ourselves. 

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>   2. It looks like if we publish an ontology for the DSA and other algorithms, then the two
>       ontologies would be complementary and not even overlap.
> 
> Yes, BUT you'd need to then change the sparql in webid+TLS to reflect that in order for the auth to be consistent.  That also means changing all the implementations (maybe with the exception of openlink)

Not really. The Sparql may have to be updated to work on graphs that have reasoning engines
that extract the underlying keys.

We'll have to do that anyway all the time. Cause as you can imagine Manu is not the only
one on the micropayments bandwaggon, and so building an ontology for his future cash
replacement strategy. And the JSON folks in BrowserID want their own formats right?  And 
who knows soon someone will come up with something even better than JSON. I heard
there was a langauge called Lisp, that has more and more fans, given that it is functional
and stateless, and that is where the future of programming is.

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>   There is some stuff on signatures, but I'd like to be sure that works with Turtle as well
> as any other format.
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>    Note that their Keys are not http://www.w3.org/ns/auth/cert#Key s. Their Keys are our
> http://www.w3.org/ns/auth/cert#Certificate , encoded furthermore in DER .
> 
> Yes, but most tooling deals quite well with DER.

All tooling deals with public keys in the end. That's where the maths is.
And if you ask the BrowserId folks, they've given up on DER, and they are the future right?
They must be: they are using JSON. 

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>    One could add the parallels as owl:equivalentClass to our ontology ( after verification ).
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> That could work ...

Ok, so now your ok with owl:equivalentClass .

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> Henry
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> >
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> > Henry
> >
> >
> > Social Web Architect
> > http://bblfish.net/
> >
> >
> 
> Social Web Architect
> http://bblfish.net/
> 
> 

Social Web Architect
http://bblfish.net/