Re: (Dis)Proving that 303s have a performance impact.

On 16 Feb 2013, at 21:07, Jürgen Jakobitsch <j.jakobitsch@semantic-web.at> wrote:

> henry, you continue to tune your examples in favour of your preference,
> that is not exactly scientific, hence my example.

In what way am I tuning my example? Is it not the case that a redirect
requires one more message with the server? Whatever the speed of the network
(whatever your car is) you need one more message exchange with the 303 style. 
That is what 303s mean.   With 303 you need a message to go from your computer 
to the server and the server to send a message back, before you can send another
message out to get the content you wanted.

In my experience at AltaVista working on the babelfish machine translation
service, and work at Sun Microsystems ( now Oracle ) working on networking 
and Semantic Web tools, and now working on an LDP implementation, I am 
absolutely clear about the above, and one does not need that much experience
to grok that either. A basic understanding of HTTP will do.

If you have a different point of view please just write out clearly as I did in 
the first e-mail of this thread a use case that contradicts this, showing what
messages get passed and how this functions.

All I hear for the moment is inuendos and hand waving. If you have something
serious write it out. Please.

Henry


> 
> wkr turnguard
> 
> 
> On Sat, 2013-02-16 at 20:41 +0100, Henry Story wrote:
>> On 16 Feb 2013, at 20:29, Jürgen Jakobitsch <j.jakobitsch@semantic-web.at> wrote:
>> 
>>> hi,
>>> 
>>> if as "ferrari" constantly drives at 50mph and an old eastern german
>>> "trabant" [1] constantly drives at 50mph it can be concluded that
>>> ferraris and trabants are the same in performance.
>> 
>> Nice example. Let us adapt it to our case.
>> 
>> Say you receive a message that tells you where you can get some gold. So let us map our use cases to this
>> 
>> A: hash url
>>  go to London Paddington 22 and your find your gold there.
>> 
>> B: 303
>>  go to Japan and you'll find a message on where to get your gold there
>>  (namely in Paddington 22 in London )
>> 
>> 
>> Whichever car you use to get your gold, be it the east german trabant, or the ferrari,
>> it will clearly be faster if you receive a message of type A. That will save you a
>> trip to Japan, and back to London. 
>> 
>> It's simple: Hash URLs are just more ecological, and they make you save time too.
>> 
>> :-)
>> 
>> Henry
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> q.e.d.
>>> 
>>> :-D 
>>> 
>>> wkr j
>>> 
>>> [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trabant
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Sat, 2013-02-16 at 19:48 +0100, Henry Story wrote:
>>>> On 16 Feb 2013, at 19:26, Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 2/16/13 1:11 PM, Henry Story wrote:
>>>>>> On 16 Feb 2013, at 18:37, Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Yes, its got to be so simple that it won't take you time to make the entire experiment, and then present a set of conclusions drawn from your observations etc..
>>>>>> What is the experminent we need to do? Can you describe it?
>>>>> 
>>>>> I don't have time for games. You outlined a set of claims upon which you've arrived at disputed conclusions. Thus, you already know the description of your experiment since you are the very same person that's provided its hypothesis.
>>>> 
>>>> Ok, so we need to compare like with like, in order to be able to have an expermiment.
>>>> So we put ourselves in a user's shoes. He has to choose between either hash WebID, 
>>>> or a 303 WebID . He has the same information to publish in both cases 
>>>> 
>>>> Hash:          http://joe.example/hash/joe#me
>>>> Non Hash:      http://joe.example/resource/joe
>>>> 
>>>> So we have the WebID and we need to get the WebID Profile document [1].
>>>> Let us say the Profile document is of size S . 
>>>> 
>>>> A. Hash URL
>>>> -----------
>>>> 
>>>> A.1 Client does an HTTP GET on 
>>>>  http://joe.example/hash/joe
>>>> 
>>>> A.2 Client receives document of size S
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> B. Non Hash URL
>>>> ---------------
>>>> 
>>>> B.1 Client does an HTTP GET on 
>>>>  http://joe.example/resource/joe
>>>> 
>>>> B.2 Client received a 303 redirect to 
>>>>  http://joe.example/document/joe
>>>> 
>>>> B.3 Client does an HTTP GET on  
>>>>   http://joe.example/document/joe
>>>> 
>>>> B.4 Client received content of size S
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Conclusion
>>>> -----------
>>>> 
>>>> Given that the size of the documents are the same in both cases, and that we
>>>> work with the same network speeds in order to remove accidental varations of speed,
>>>> We see that B requires 1 more HTTP request to the server that A does.
>>>> 
>>>> Therefore the difference in speed between A and B is exactly the difference of 
>>>> a message exchange. This difference will always exist no matter what the network
>>>> setup.
>>>> 
>>>> The noticeability of this will vary depending on the distance of the client to the
>>>> server, and the size of the document. But it will always exist. There is therfore
>>>> an efficiency gain to be had by choosing the hash url for free.
>>>> 
>>>> Q.E.D.
>>>> 
>>>> Henry
>>>> 
>>>> [1] https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/WebID/raw-file/tip/spec/identity-respec.html
>>>> [2] ISSUE-74
>>>> 
>>>> Social Web Architect
>>>> http://bblfish.net/
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> | Jürgen Jakobitsch, 
>>> | Software Developer
>>> | Semantic Web Company GmbH
>>> | Mariahilfer Straße 70 / Neubaugasse 1, Top 8
>>> | A - 1070 Wien, Austria
>>> | Mob +43 676 62 12 710 | Fax +43.1.402 12 35 - 22
>>> 
>>> COMPANY INFORMATION
>>> | web       : http://www.semantic-web.at/
>>> | foaf      : http://company.semantic-web.at/person/juergen_jakobitsch
>>> PERSONAL INFORMATION
>>> | web       : http://www.turnguard.com
>>> | foaf      : http://www.turnguard.com/turnguard
>>> | g+        : https://plus.google.com/111233759991616358206/posts
>>> | skype     : jakobitsch-punkt
>>> | xmlns:tg  = "http://www.turnguard.com/turnguard#"
>>> 
>> 
>> Social Web Architect
>> http://bblfish.net/
>> 
> 
> -- 
> | Jürgen Jakobitsch, 
> | Software Developer
> | Semantic Web Company GmbH
> | Mariahilfer Straße 70 / Neubaugasse 1, Top 8
> | A - 1070 Wien, Austria
> | Mob +43 676 62 12 710 | Fax +43.1.402 12 35 - 22
> 
> COMPANY INFORMATION
> | web       : http://www.semantic-web.at/
> | foaf      : http://company.semantic-web.at/person/juergen_jakobitsch
> PERSONAL INFORMATION
> | web       : http://www.turnguard.com
> | foaf      : http://www.turnguard.com/turnguard
> | g+        : https://plus.google.com/111233759991616358206/posts
> | skype     : jakobitsch-punkt
> | xmlns:tg  = "http://www.turnguard.com/turnguard#"
> 

Social Web Architect
http://bblfish.net/

Received on Saturday, 16 February 2013 20:21:11 UTC