Re: Hash vs Hashless URIs

On 11 December 2012 14:48, ☮ elf Pavlik ☮ <perpetual-tripper@wwelves.org>wrote:

> Excerpts from Melvin Carvalho's message of 2012-11-21 15:51:49 +0000:
> > On 21 November 2012 15:43, ☮ elf Pavlik ☮ <perpetual-tripper@wwelves.org
> >wrote:
> >
> > > Excerpts from Kingsley Idehen's message of 2012-11-21 14:18:13 +0000:
> > > > Please call vote on this matter. I have better things to do with my
> > > > time. If a majority want a WebID to be defined a hash based HTTP URI,
> > > > let's get that in the open right now. We all have decisions to make
> > > > about how we spend our time and priorities across our respective
> > > > development efforts.
> > >
> > > $ curl -I http://sebastian.tramp.name
> > > HTTP/1.1 303 See Other
> > > Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2012 14:33:16 GMT
> > > Server: Apache/2.2.14 (Ubuntu)
> > > X-Powered-By: PHP/5.3.2-1ubuntu4.18
> > > X-Pingback: http://pingback.aksw.org/
> > > Location: http://bis.informatik.uni-leipzig.de/SebastianTramp
> > > Vary: Accept-Encoding
> > > Content-Type: text/html
> > >
> > > personally i would also like to use WebID without #i or #me or #self or
> > > #elf or #wtf ;)
> > >
> >
> > elf, can you explain why you would want this ... do you have any specific
> > reason, or is it simply a 'vanity' url?
> first of all apologies for this super delayed reply!
>
> to start in very general way, i like when we design technology that serves
> people and make sure that we don't expect people to stretch their comfort
> ONLY to fit some technological solution (at the same time i don't mind
> encouraging some stretching but motivated with more extensional reasons!) i
> also realize that we design with certain group of people in mind as well -
> *developers* - but if someone needs to stretch from technical reasons ... ;)
>
> when i think of a concept of ID, i see most people identifying themselves
> nowadays with either their email address (including unfortunate @twitter
> thing) or their homepage / online profile. i see various challenges people
> from webfinger/simple web discovery face with using email like identifiers,
> and i agree that we can simplify certain things by sticking to HTTP. when
> it comes to identifying onself with certain HTTP URL, may people may have
> their homepage, blog, various online profiles. sometimes people also print
> them on their personal cards. i've never seen someone using a URL with
> #something it for personal homepage or online profile. i understand
> distinction between referencing an online profile and entity which this
> profile describes, still requiring people to use #whatever feel to me like
> putting burden on those who *just want to use this damn thing*, and very
> likely brining confusion to broad audience.
>
> besides making pools and discussions within this group, mostly with people
> having strong and at least medium (like myself) understanding of underlying
> technologies. i would like to look for feedback from people like *my
> auntie* or at least *arts student* who can find their way in interacting
> online but see this whole thing as a magical black box.
>
> from my perspective sticking to identifiers like http://funkyjohny.me or
> http://funkyclub.org/johny can make it simplest for people to really
> identify oneself with such URL, which to my understanding mean that even
> using 303 may bring confusion if we type http://funkyjohny.me and end up
> somewhere let's say on http://funkyjohny.me/profile
>
> looking at present tendencies in online interaction, besides crafting
> technologies with solid technical foundations we MUST also make sure that
> we make them SEXY!
>
> once more i see it very impractical to design beautiful *Interaction
> Experience* just within circle of geeks and such *front end* related issues
> i would like to confront with people who consider internet as magical thing
> :)
>
> last but not least i would like to say that i find great appreciation to
> all the work people do in this and other related working groups! and i
> would find it a big shame if lack of SEXYness become and obstacle to a
> broad adoption of this work...
>

FWIW I have tried explaining # URIs to people of all ages, male and
female.  I start by saying that we have the concept of web pages.  Then I
tell them that it is possible to split web pages up into sections using the
# character.  Each section can be about a different topic.  Then each topic
can have properties and attributes in it's own right.

I have *never* once failed to explain this to a non technical person in
less than 5 minutes.  In fact most people come back to me and say, that was
very easy.

It's only the "cool kids" that find this concept very hard to grasp.  That
is because it requires unlearning what they have learnt.  It's sad to say
that some web developers will never understand this.  It's not about lack
of knowledge, it's about preconcieved notions.  This is not unique to the
web, it's true in many fields.