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RE: Minutes, 17 November 2010 Web Fonts WG telcom

From: Levantovsky, Vladimir <Vladimir.Levantovsky@MonotypeImaging.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 12:17:03 -0500
To: Christopher Slye <cslye@adobe.com>, "public-webfonts-wg@w3.org Group" <public-webfonts-wg@w3.org>
Message-ID: <7534F85A589E654EB1E44E5CFDC19E3D053BD1404D@wob-email-01.agfamonotype.org>
The public archive of EPUB email list with messages related to WOFF support discussions can be found at:
http://groups.google.com/group/epub-21-working-group/browse_thread/thread/7a405a69d4becb12?pli=1

Regards,
Vlad


> -----Original Message-----
> From: public-webfonts-wg-request@w3.org [mailto:public-webfonts-wg-
> request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Slye
> Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2010 11:08 AM
> To: public-webfonts-wg@w3.org Group
> Subject: Minutes, 17 November 2010 Web Fonts WG telcom
> 
> Here are the minutes of the 17 November 2010 Web Fonts Working Group
> telcon:
> 
> http://www.w3.org/2010/11/17-webfonts-minutes.html
> 
> 
> 17 Nov 2010
> 
>    See also: [2]IRC log
> 
>       [2] http://www.w3.org/2010/11/17-webfonts-irc
> 
> Attendees
> 
>    Present
>    Regrets
>    Chair
>           Vlad
> 
>    Scribe
>           cslye
> 
> Contents
> 
>      * [3]Topics
>      * [4]Summary of Action Items
>      _________________________________________________________
> 
>    <trackbot> Date: 17 November 2010
> 
>    Vlad: EPUB list conversation took place that WOFF is redundant for
>    EPUB.
> 
>    <ChrisL> scribenick: cslye
> 
>    Vlad: Font solutions are fragmented; thinks WOFF is best solution.
>    ... Many list members are undecided.
> 
>    What is the list?
> 
>    <ChrisL> [5]http://openebook.org/
> 
>       [5] http://openebook.org/
> 
>    Vlad: List is: epub@openebook.org
> 
>    I will talk to the Adobe person about it.
> 
>    jdaggett: EPUB font is embedded, not linked.
> 
>    <ChrisL> We would like woff to be ubiquitous though, and we would
>    like epub to deviate from Web standarfds as little as possible
> 
>    Vlad: If the font data is packaged inside the file, it's embedded,
>    and linking is not embedded.
> 
>    <ChrisL> its not embedded in the sense of being part of the same
>    document file
> 
>    ChrisL: Saving web pages: Don't want EPUB to deviate too much from
>    that.
> 
>    jdaggett: I don't see where we need to say explicitly that any
>    particular font should be used in EPUB. Can recommend WOFF, though.
> 
>    <John> [Sorry. There seems to besomething wrong with my phone.]
> 
>    Vlad: EPUB has a "mangled font" algorithm that was optional.
>    ... WOFF is a better solution since it has more support and has
>    metadata.
> 
>    jdaggett: That's a dumb requirement.
> 
>    sergeym: The spec wants to avoid moving a font from one EPUB to
>    aother.
> 
>    Vlad: I'm not concerned about users with proper license.
> 
>    sergeym: Just clarifying what the spec actually says.
>    ... (The EPUB spec.)
> 
>    Vlad: WOFF informs the user.
>    ... Keep honest people honest.
>    ... Moving on...
> 
>    First agenda item: Review open action items.
> 
>    <scribe> ACTION: 29 to FAQ. [recorded in
>    [6]http://www.w3.org/2010/11/17-webfonts-minutes.html#action01]
> 
>    <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - 29
> 
>    <ChrisL> action-29?
> 
>    <trackbot> ACTION-29 -- John Hudson to review woff faq with chris
>    and vlad -- due 2010-10-06 -- OPEN
> 
>    <trackbot> [7]http://www.w3.org/Fonts/WG/track/actions/29
> 
>       [7] http://www.w3.org/Fonts/WG/track/actions/29
> 
>    action-36?
> 
>    <trackbot> ACTION-36 -- Chris Lilley to recategorise the general
>    conformance criteria -- due 2010-11-11 -- OPEN
> 
>    <trackbot> [8]http://www.w3.org/Fonts/WG/track/actions/36
> 
>       [8] http://www.w3.org/Fonts/WG/track/actions/36
> 
>    Can be closed.
> 
>    action-37?
> 
>    <trackbot> ACTION-37 -- Chris Lilley to get cracking on test suite.
>    -- due 2010-11-11 -- OPEN
> 
>    <trackbot> [9]http://www.w3.org/Fonts/WG/track/actions/37
> 
>       [9] http://www.w3.org/Fonts/WG/track/actions/37
> 
>    <ChrisL> close action-36
> 
>    <trackbot> ACTION-36 Recategorise the general conformance criteria
>    closed
> 
>    close action-37
> 
>    <trackbot> ACTION-37 Get cracking on test suite. closed
> 
>    <ChrisL> action-38?
> 
>    <trackbot> ACTION-38 -- John Daggett to help with font creation for
>    the test suite. -- due 2010-11-11 -- OPEN
> 
>    <trackbot> [10]http://www.w3.org/Fonts/WG/track/actions/38
> 
>      [10] http://www.w3.org/Fonts/WG/track/actions/38
> 
>    We will review Tal's test suite stuff today
> 
>    Vlad: Should we keep it open?
> 
>    <jdaggett> yeah, closing it sounds fine
> 
>    ChrisL: Close it and make a more specific action.
> 
>    close action-38
> 
>    <trackbot> ACTION-38 Help with font creation for the test suite.
>    closed
> 
>    action-43?
> 
>    <trackbot> ACTION-43 -- Jonathan Kew to clarify that @id on uniqueid
>    is required -- due 2010-11-17 -- OPEN
> 
>    <trackbot> [11]http://www.w3.org/Fonts/WG/track/actions/43
> 
>      [11] http://www.w3.org/Fonts/WG/track/actions/43
> 
>    close action-43
> 
>    <trackbot> ACTION-43 Clarify that @id on uniqueid is required closed
> 
>    action-44?
> 
>    <trackbot> ACTION-44 -- Jonathan Kew to clarify schema language in
>    text to say one or more text elements -- due 2010-11-17 -- OPEN
> 
>    <trackbot> [12]http://www.w3.org/Fonts/WG/track/actions/44
> 
>      [12] http://www.w3.org/Fonts/WG/track/actions/44
> 
>    close action-44
> 
>    <trackbot> ACTION-44 Clarify schema language in text to say one or
>    more text elements closed
> 
>    close action-45
> 
>    <trackbot> ACTION-45 Make item element a required chilkd of
>    extension closed
> 
>    action-46?
> 
>    <trackbot> ACTION-46 -- Chris Lilley to add the two missing
>    conformance statements and split out the stylesheet -- due
>    2010-11-17 -- OPEN
> 
>    <trackbot> [13]http://www.w3.org/Fonts/WG/track/actions/46
> 
>      [13] http://www.w3.org/Fonts/WG/track/actions/46
> 
>    ChrisL: They were added. Can be closed.
> 
>    close action-46
> 
>    <trackbot> ACTION-46 Add the two missing conformance statements and
>    split out the stylesheet closed
> 
>    close action-47
> 
>    <trackbot> ACTION-47 Edit the media registration to say
>    application/font-woff closed
> 
>    ChrisL: Was done in accordance with Last Call.
> 
>    <ChrisL> the general ones are here
> 
>    <ChrisL>
>    [14]http://www.w3.org/Fonts/WG/wiki/TestPlan-General#Test_Plan_-_Gen
>    eral
> 
>      [14] http://www.w3.org/Fonts/WG/wiki/TestPlan-General#Test_Plan_-
> _General
> 
>    ChrisL: Leave untestable things as lowercase 'must'?
>    ... Take untestable things out of conformance spec.
>    ... Just recommend testing them.
> 
>    jdaggett: Just mark what's not testable.
> 
>    ChrisL: I agree, but...
>    ... Following CSS3 font spec is hard to test.
> 
>    jdaggett: Benefit to leaving CSS3 requirement is useful, though.
> 
>    Vlad: Better to keep these things in the spec, even if they're
>    difficult/impossible to test.
>    ... Let's review the test plans along with looking at Tal's stuff.
> 
>    Tal: Python script generates valid and invalid WOFF.
>    ... Link them to testable assertions.
>    ... Should I eliminate tests that aren't tied specifically to
>    testable assertions?
> 
>    ChrisL: NO NO NO!
> 
>    Tal: Tricky to make a font that has only one thing wrong.
>    ... I have a dump of test cases I have now.
> 
>    <ChrisL> ref as in reference
> 
>    jdaggett: Ref test compares two documents; can be automated.
>    ... Alternate test shows PASS/FAIL, when a reference is not
>    available.
>    ... Let's have both kinds of tests.
> 
>    Tal: Keep the sfnt as simple as possible; with single character?
> 
>    sergeym: Existing test fonts work fine; we don't need something new.
> 
>    <tal>
>    [15]http://wofftesttemp.typesupply.com/UA-Tests/useragenttestindex.h
>    tml
> 
>      [15] http://wofftesttemp.typesupply.com/UA-
> Tests/useragenttestindex.html
> 
>    Tal: Ref tests use a raw font for comparison.
> 
>    Better to use an installed font, instead of linked?
> 
>    jdaggett: Have an installed fallback font to use as a flag, to
>    indicate that fonts are loading properly.
> 
>    Vlad: Create a font with mis-mapped characters, so that "PASS" =
>    "FAIL"
> 
>    <jdaggett>
>    [16]http://test.csswg.org/suites/css2.1/20101027/xhtml1/font-family-
>    name-003.xht
> 
>      [16] http://test.csswg.org/suites/css2.1/20101027/xhtml1/font-
> family-name-003.xht
> 
>    <ChrisL> Text fotr a 'must load' test is 'FAIL" and the font has P
>    glyph for F etc so it looks like'PASS' when loaded
> 
>    <jdaggett>
>    [17]http://test.csswg.org/suites/css2.1/20101027/xhtml1/font-family-
>    name-ref.xht
> 
>      [17] http://test.csswg.org/suites/css2.1/20101027/xhtml1/font-
> family-name-ref.xht
> 
>    <jdaggett> those are examples of a reftest that uses
> 
>    <jdaggett> the sort of thing we're talking about
> 
>    sergeym: We need to show when fonts don't load at all. Need separate
>    font for that?
> 
>    jdaggett: We have all this already.
> 
>    <ChrisL> Text for a 'must not load' test is 'PASS" and the font has
>    F glyph for P etc so it looks like 'FAIL' when erroneously loaded
> 
>    tal: Some testable assertions test file format. Should a UA test
>    pass even if file format is invalid?
>    ... Checksums - validator will fail bad checksums, but UA should
>    pass.
>    ... Need test case for UA where checksums are bad, but UA will pass
>    it.
> 
>    Vlad: Don't see why we need this test.
> 
>    jdaggett: We don't want UAs to be required to fail it, but they can
>    if they want.
> 
>    Vlad: Do we have tests for UA with bad metadata?
> 
>    tal: I will add some of these edge cases that aren't there.
> 
>    <ChrisL> ACTION: Tal to create UA test for bad metadata [recorded in
>    [18]http://www.w3.org/2010/11/17-webfonts-minutes.html#action02]
> 
>    <trackbot> Created ACTION-48 - Create UA test for bad metadata [on
>    Tal Leming - due 2010-11-24].
> 
>    <scribe> ACTION: Tal to update UA test plan to include new "fringe"
>    tests. [recorded in
>    [19]http://www.w3.org/2010/11/17-webfonts-minutes.html#action03]
> 
>    <trackbot> Created ACTION-49 - Update UA test plan to include new
>    "fringe" tests. [on Tal Leming - due 2010-11-24].
> 
>    tal: What if padding is done with something other than null bytes?
> 
>    <scribe> ACTION: Tal to update font format test plan to include new
>    "fringe" tests. [recorded in
>    [20]http://www.w3.org/2010/11/17-webfonts-minutes.html#action04]
> 
>    <trackbot> Created ACTION-50 - Update font format test plan to
>    include new "fringe" tests. [on Tal Leming - due 2010-11-24].
> 
>    tal: Please give me comments and suggestions on test plan.
> 
> Summary of Action Items
> 
>    [NEW] ACTION: 29 to FAQ. [recorded in
>    [21]http://www.w3.org/2010/11/17-webfonts-minutes.html#action01]
>    [NEW] ACTION: Tal to create UA test for bad metadata [recorded in
>    [22]http://www.w3.org/2010/11/17-webfonts-minutes.html#action02]
>    [NEW] ACTION: Tal to update font format test plan to include new
>    "fringe" tests. [recorded in
>    [23]http://www.w3.org/2010/11/17-webfonts-minutes.html#action04]
>    [NEW] ACTION: Tal to update UA test plan to include new "fringe"
>    tests. [recorded in
>    [24]http://www.w3.org/2010/11/17-webfonts-minutes.html#action03]
> 
>    [End of minutes]
> 
Received on Thursday, 18 November 2010 17:28:47 GMT

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