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Minutes, 10 Nov 2010 WebFonts WG telcon

From: Chris Lilley <chris@w3.org>
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 23:01:14 +0100
Message-ID: <183440950.20101110230114@w3.org>
To: WOFF Working Group <public-webfonts-wg@w3.org>
Hello,

Minutes of the 10 November 2010 WebFonts WG telcon are at
http://www.w3.org/2010/11/10-webfonts-minutes.html

and below as text for tracker to chew on.

WebFonts Working Group Teleconference
10 Nov 2010

Agenda

See also: IRC log
Attendees

Present
    ChrisL, Vlad, +44.845.397.aabb, +1.443.895.aacc, +1.425.213.aadd, jfkthame, +1.408.536.aaee, cslye, +31.70.360.aaff, Erik, tal
Regrets
    dave_crossland, john_hudson
Chair
    Vlad
Scribe
    ChrisL

Contents

    Topics
        Recent comments
        decision to request last call
    Summary of Action Items

<trackbot> Date: 10 November 2010

<scribe> scribe: ChrisL

<cslye> "Working Online For Fun"?

<jdaggett> kinda catchy no?

<erik> Isn't that supposed to read "Working Online For Free" ?
Recent comments

Vlad: some good discussion online recently

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webfonts-wg/2010Nov/0013.html

Vlad: publication date is Nov 16, seems ok, ends before holiday season
... any problem withthat date?

(none heard)

<cslye> Yes, thanks Chris for all your scribing.

Vlad: comments from Tal on metadata http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webfonts-wg/2010Nov/0009.html
... comments from David Singer http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webfonts-wg/2010Nov/0013.html

ChrisL: makes sense to pad aftyer last table if something follows

jfkthame: think the code for sfnt2woff leaves meta and private unpadded, but padds all font tables
... need to check code to be sure

Vlad: failing on lack of padding at end is not needed
... for the last data block

tal: advantage is that ist clear, OT is ambiguous and this led to problems
... validator requires padding

ChrisL: also for uncompressed tables, can be used directly

Vlad: need to review text, currently its unclear or contradictory

tal: don't weant to break existing fonts

<erik> (that was tal)

jfkthame: tool leaves meta and private unpadded if they are the last in the file
... font tables always padded
... metapadded if private follows
... spec and tool always require padding of all font tables including the last one

Vlad: so we should, in section 6, modify text of para 4 to say that if meta is followd by private, meta must be padded to four byte boundary
... unless its already on a boundary

<jfkthame> see http://www.w3.org/TR/2010/WD-WOFF-20100727/#Metadata for older wording

jfkthame: WD from July said meta is not padded unless followed by private

cslye: can we just say all tables start on 4 byte boundary and pad to make that so

Vlad: looking for minimal spec change for clarity
... if meta is followed by private

cslye: we can leave out language on 'if followed'

ChrisL: can we say 0..3 bytes of padding?

Vlad: we can say no additional padding is needed
... if private is present it must begin on the nearest four byte boundary
... after private no padding is necessary

erik: no need for padding if meta is the last block

Vlad: must begin on a four byte boundary with 0..3 null bytes as padding

<scribe> ACTION: jfkthame to fix up the padding wording per 10 Nov telcon [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/11/10-webfonts-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-41 - Fix up the padding wording per 10 Nov telcon [on Jonathan Kew - due 2010-11-17].

jfkthame: is trailing padding allowed?

Vlad: change must to should, padding is ok if tool adds it

sergey: easier for tools to always add padding

Vlad: agree ther eis no need to reject if the trailing padding is absent

<erik> (sergey, not erik)

cslye: in private, there is good language about up to three bytes, can we reuse that?

Vlad: font tables always padded so meta always syarts ona four byte boundary

jfkthame: ok, that works

Vlad: that deals with one of dave singers comments and one of mine
... chris suggested language for what 'valid metadata' means

(no objection)

<scribe> ACTION: jfkthame to update defination of valid metadata [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/11/10-webfonts-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-42 - Update defination of valid metadata [on Jonathan Kew - due 2010-11-17].

'valid metadata is well formed, matches the schema and is compressed'

jfkthame: why is it needed?

Vlad: concern was whether rejection on uncompressed or not well formed was neeeded
... or avoid the term valid
... now on the metadata
... uniqueid element is optional but if present, the attribute should be required

ChrisL: spec does not say that explicitly, the schema does require it

Vlad: spec says that in a discrepancy between spec and schema, the text takes precedence. so the text needs to be clear here

<scribe> ACTION: jfkthame to clarify that @id on uniqueid is required [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/11/10-webfonts-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-43 - Clarify that @id on uniqueid is required [on Jonathan Kew - due 2010-11-17].

Vlad: next one is a typo, credits element must contain at least one credit element, the must is lowwrcase, should be MUST

jfkthame: all of the elements say that they must be a child of the metadata element, maybe all of these should be MUST

Vlad: language on text subelements says they are localisable but does not say that you need at least one of them

<scribe> ACTION: jfkthame to clarify schema language in text to say one or more text elements [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/11/10-webfonts-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-44 - Clarify schema language in text to say one or more text elements [on Jonathan Kew - due 2010-11-17].

jfkthame: but they can still make empty text elements

Vlad: item element as part of extyension element, current text says at least one should. should be a MUST
... otherwise you can have an empty extension element

jfkthame: what is the harm?

(we go with MUST)

<scribe> ACTION: jfkthame to make item element a required chilkd of extension [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/11/10-webfonts-minutes.html#action05]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-45 - Make item element a required chilkd of extension [on Jonathan Kew - due 2010-11-17].

Vlad: couple of missed testable assertions

action chris to add the two missing conformance statements and split out the stylesheet

<trackbot> Created ACTION-46 - Add the two missing conformance statements and split out the stylesheet [on Chris Lilley - due 2010-11-17].

Vlad: some minor changes from jdaggett as well

(agree with jdaggett changes)

ChrisL: feedback was that getting a font/ top level type was a lot of lengthy work

Vlad: nice to have but risk of delay
... if that is the consensus we could go straight with application/font-woff

ChrisL: this could easily consume a year or two . hard to justify

resolved: go with application/font-woff

<scribe> ACTION: chris to edit the media registration to say application/font-woff [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/11/10-webfonts-minutes.html#action06]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-47 - Edit the media registration to say application/font-woff [on Chris Lilley - due 2010-11-17].

action-23?

<trackbot> ACTION-23 -- Jonathan Kew to verify whether, with zlib, it's possible to have a stream that allows an EOF midstream, so extra data can be padded on mid-stream. -- due 2010-08-24 -- CLOSED

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Fonts/WG/track/actions/23

action-33?

<trackbot> ACTION-33 -- Chris Lilley to write up the proposed text for WOFF processing model -- due 2010-10-27 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Fonts/WG/track/actions/33

close action-33

<trackbot> ACTION-33 Write up the proposed text for WOFF processing model closed

close action-34

<trackbot> ACTION-34 Add id and class to testable assertions closed

close action-39

<trackbot> ACTION-39 Write to iesg suggesting font/ top level type closed

close action-40

<trackbot> ACTION-40 Add a media type registration remplate for woff, omitting the top level type closed
decision to request last call

Vlad: any objections?

(none)

resolved: request last call for woff specification

Vlad: timeframe for spec edits?

jfkthame: will do tomorrow

Vlad: please send email to list once spec edits are done. we will then consider it ready for publication

adjourned
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: chris to edit the media registration to say application/font-woff [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/11/10-webfonts-minutes.html#action06]
[NEW] ACTION: jfkthame to clarify schema language in text to say one or more text elements [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/11/10-webfonts-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: jfkthame to clarify that @id on uniqueid is required [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/11/10-webfonts-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: jfkthame to fix up the padding wording per 10 Nov telcon [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/11/10-webfonts-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: jfkthame to make item element a required chilkd of extension [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/11/10-webfonts-minutes.html#action05]
[NEW] ACTION: jfkthame to update defination of valid metadata [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/11/10-webfonts-minutes.html#action02]
 
[End of minutes]

-- 
 Chris Lilley   Technical Director, Interaction Domain                 
 W3C Graphics Activity Lead, Fonts Activity Lead
 Co-Chair, W3C Hypertext CG
 Member, CSS, WebFonts, SVG Working Groups
Received on Wednesday, 10 November 2010 22:01:20 GMT

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