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"Minutes" from 30 October 2012 Pointer Events Gathering

From: Arthur Barstow <art.barstow@nokia.com>
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 18:42:09 +0100
Message-ID: <50901171.3070704@nokia.com>
To: "public-webevents@w3.org" <public-webevents@w3.org>, public-pointer-events@w3.org
Hi All,

The "minutes" from the October 30 Pointer Events gathering in Lyon are 
in <http://www.w3.org/2012/10/30-webevents-minutes.html> and copied below.

Please continue all Pointer Events discussions on the 
public-pointer-events list.

-Thanks, AB


W3C <http://www.w3.org/>


  - DRAFT -


  Pointer Events and Web Events Gathering


    30 Oct 2012

See also:IRC log <http://www.w3.org/2012/10/30-webevents-irc>


    Attendees

Present
    Art_Barstow, Mike_Smith, Anne_van_Kesteren, Anssi_Kostiainen,
    Lachlan_Hunt, Odin, Alex_Russell, Jonas_Sicking, Simon_Pieters,
    Olli_Pettay, Robin_Berjon, Adrian_Bateman, Henri_Sivonen,
    Soonbo_Han, Sangwhan_Moon, Cathy_Chan, Matt_Brubeck, Rick_Byers,
    Jacob_Rossi, Ojan_Vafai, Daniel_Freedman, Asir, Selvasingh,
    Sakari_Poussa, Doug_Schepers
Regrets
Chair
    Art
Scribe
    Art


    Contents

  * Topics <http://www.w3.org/2012/10/30-webevents-minutes.html#agenda>
  * Summary of Action Items
    <http://www.w3.org/2012/10/30-webevents-minutes.html#ActionSummary>

------------------------------------------------------------------------

mbrubeck, can you try calling in now? I think you will be connected to 
#webapps but just come here for the PointerEvents gathering. OK?

<scribe> ScribeNick: ArtB

<scribe> Scribe: Art

Date: 30 October 2012

<scribe> Agenda: no formal agenda ...

<adrianba> Microsoft submissonhttp://www.w3.org/Submission/2012/03/

<adrianba> 
Spechttp://www.w3.org/Submission/2012/SUBM-pointer-events-20120907/

Adrian:want apps to be able to write against a variety of pointer devices

 existing APIs for touch are difficult to use

 it was a difficult API to design

 we think this one works well with existing content

 that uses mouse events

 The goal of our Submission was to get others together

 to build something that is interoperable.

 The spec is modeled after mouse events

 one key take away is you can choose if you work against mouse or 
pointer events

 and can receive both types of message

 (need this for app that only supports mouse events).

 A strength is just one code path for events.

 Not just a single touch but multi touch and multiple input devices

 Events identify the type of event

 and that should be extensible

 not just pen, mouse, etc.

Adrian:there are controlling aspects too e.g. panning, scrolling

 we added what we think is the minimum needed

Jacob:that's a good summary

 Goal is to have just one Pointer model

 Realize though that in the short term, devs will have to deal with 
"legacy" events

 Want it to work with sites regardless of pointer devices used

Matt:one issue I'd like to raise ...

 in addition to mouse legacy, there will be touch events legacy to 
consider too

 think the spec will have to deal with those interactions too

Jacob:we haven't worked that out yet

Adrian:we've heard that feedback before

 but we haven't done the investigation

 and agree the group will have to do some investigation there

Adrian:comments, questions

Rick:one of the challenges with touch events is not blocking on scroll 
events

 think pointer events helps there

[ Scribe missed some of Rick's points  ]

Jacob:pointer events does address Rick

Rick:we have some apps that want to interupt scrolling

<adrianba> Rick's point was about allowing performant scrolling/panning 
from the UA while giving apps the JavaScript events when they want them

Jacob:we have talked about how to handle interupts for panning, scrolling

 there are issues with multiple threads

<adrianba> touch-action is related to 
this:http://www.w3.org/Submission/2012/SUBM-pointer-events-20120907/#the-touch-action-css-property

 think we should think about those cases

 Need to make sure we solve any related performance probs

Rick:agree performance is primary consideration

Lachlan:why introduce new events that mirror existing event (e.g. 
mouseup) rather than extending existing events?

Jacob:PE does inherit mouse events

 but multi touch, multi pointer creates probs for mouse events

Lachlan:ok

Doug:make sense Lachy?

Lachlan:yes

Art:Doug, can you say anything about the status of the proposed PE WG?

Doug:several Members responded (~8)

 got all positive support

 there were no objections from W3C management

 my expectation is the WG will be approved

 and that should happened "ASAP"

Doug:re the Web Events WG ...

<odinho_> RRSAgent: make minutes

 they are working on Touch Events

 the v1 spec is in Candidate Recommendation

 after v1 goes to Recommendation, we expect the WG to close

 and hence we will do no additional work on Touch Events v2

 Think PE spec is a good way forward.

 Re the IndieUI work, the PE WG will not have any formal joint work 
with IndieUI

 although we will notify them of PE WG's early drafts.

 I would like to see PE WG get a First Public WD published as soon as 
possible

Adrian:we don't want to see massive changes to PE spec

 we think it is a good foundation

 we do expect some changes

 even though that will affect our current implementation

Doug:thanks Adrian, that's helpful

Asir:when is the W3C management meeting?

<jrossi> asir

Doug:because of TPAC week, not this week

 but we are making it a priority

 perhaps a decision as early as next week

Art:I think Doug is saying next week is the absolute best case

<jrossi> Thanks for a PST friendly time! :-)

<ojan> Regarding touch events, of the WebKit reviewers looking at the 
spec really wanted to see the spec cover how pointer events interact 
with touch events, i.e. the touch event equivalent one 
ofhttp://www.w3.org/Submission/pointer-events/#compatibility-mapping-with-mouse-events

Art:send comments to public-pointer-events

<smaug>http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events

Doug:send comments to the list

 I want to thank Microsoft for making this Submission

 I really appreciate it

Jacob:looking forward to working for you

Art:Gathering Adjourned

<asir> Thank you everyone!

<ojan> +1 to thanking MS for this submission


    Summary of Action Items

[End of minutes]
Received on Tuesday, 30 October 2012 17:42:43 GMT

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