W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-webed@w3.org > September 2011

Re: Restructuring of the learning material Wiki

From: Chris Mills <cmills@opera.com>
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 16:45:02 +0100
Cc: Lewis Nyman <hello@lewisnyman.co.uk>, public-webed@w3.org
Message-Id: <293F1F52-E22A-4C90-973F-1591D8CCE1CD@opera.com>
To: Doug Schepers <schepers@w3.org>

On 30 Sep 2011, at 16:14, Doug Schepers wrote:

> Hi, Chris, Lewis-
> 
> I agree that the majority of concerns for "alternative devices" are generalizable, e.g. different screen size, low-powered CPU, constrained or different user input devices, different range of use (10 feet or 10 inches, as opposed to the traditional 18-24 inches with laptops and desktops), and other considerations.  However, there are specific mobile requirements that are distinct, e.g. battery considerations, relatively low bandwidth, different screen ranges and dimensions, not to mention the differences between smartphones (what we prefer) and feature phones (the way the vast majority of the developing world uses the web).
> 
> I think a useful set of articles would outline those constraints in details and how to deal with each.

So perhaps we could still have an article on type of device you'll come across (looking at smartphones, featurephones, TVs, consoles, etc.)

and then an article covering specific mobile limitations and how to deal with them (possibly two articles, depending on amount of material), pointing to solutions covered in different, more general articles (eg media queries, feature detection, JS optimization.)

> 
> There is also a different set of content that is more common for the different platforms.  Certain types of games are typical for mobiles, and others for TVs.  TVs have richer features around multimedia, and more emphasis on alternative browsing and content discovery (e.g. "channel guides"); set-top boxes may also be more constrained in the how the content is created and deployed (e.g. it might require XHTML5, not just HTML5).  It would be useful to actually address those individual topics.
> 
> And ebooks are another matter entirely, though ePUB uses HTML5, CSS, SVG, etc.

mobile game types, etc. could be covered in the planning a web site section, as it is more UX, content planning based on context, etc.

Perhaps we could also have articles covering specific content implementations, in cases like TV (eg HbbTV works a bit differently). 

> 
> I'm on the advisory board of my local community college, and they asked us for advice in forming a "mobile web development" course, which they are under pressure to offer a specialization degree in.  They were very surprised when I suggested that they include mention of TVs and set-top boxes... they hadn't even heard of that market (despite the fact that more and more cable and satellite TV systems in our area use set-top boxes with custom interfaces, many using Web technologies).  So, I agree that the branding around mobile is very strong.

Yup, this is exactly what I've experienced, more than once.

> 
> My suggestion would be to keep the mobile intro distinct, and give it its own section, but tie it back to the general cross-device, cross-platform information.  I think it would be a turnoff to many readers if they had to wade through material they didn't care about while they are trying to focus on a specific problem.

I think this makes sense, yes.

> 
> One specific bit of information I recently found hard to find was precisely what screen sizes I should use in my media queries to hit the most popular devices, like androids or the iPhone; that might change over time, but a quick set of references there would make it easier for newbies.
> 

Yup - this is definitely a good reference to put together.

> 
> 
> On 9/30/11 9:28 AM, Chris Mills wrote:
>> D'you, I know you are right!
>> 
>> The main reason I was thinking of it as a separate course is because
>> I was asked by a university in Mexico to produce material for a
>> course on mobile development, and I thought it was a nice idea to
>> create this course and make it available to all on W3C. But we could
>> still achieve both. We could bake our cross device principles into
>> our learning material, but also create a cross device development
>> curriculum that brings together the different appropriate elements
>> form the learnin material as required.
>> 
>> See below for the current suggestion for the mobile course, along
>> with notes on how they possibly be incorporated into the main series
>> of articles.
>> 
>> The basics
>> 
>> Mobile beginnings: An introduction to the mobile web (include history
>> of mobiles, how mobile networks work, what the hardware looks like,
>> what the software looks like) - THIS IS POSSIBLE A BIT OUT OF SCOPE,
>> AND COULD BE DITCHED
>> 
>> What do the devices look like? (a fairly detailed reference showing
>> the types of devices you are likely to need to support when building
>> cross device adaptive apps) - THIS IS POSSIBLY OUT OF SCOPE, AND
>> COULD BE DITCHED
>> 
>> Mobile constraints and advantages (what are the constraints you need
>> to work around for alternative browsing devices? What are the
>> advantages, eg the context specific technologies you can take
>> advantage of?) - THIS IS POSSIBLY OUT OF SCOPE AND COULD BE DITCHED
>> 
>> THE ABOVE THREE ARTICLES COULD HAVE THEIR RELEVANT MATERIAL EXTRACTED
>> AND PUT TOGETHER INTO A SINGLE ARTICLE TITLED "ONE WEB, MANY
>> DEVICES", PLACED INSIDE
>> http://www.w3.org/wiki/Web_Standards_Curriculum#Introduction_to_the_world_of_web_standards
>> 
>> WE SHOULD ALSO SAY SOMETHING ABOUT SEMANTICS AND DIVERSE DEVICES IN
>> 
>> http://www.w3.org/wiki/The_web_standards_model_-_HTML_CSS_and_JavaScript
>> 
>> Adaptive design and development
>> 
>> Mobile friendly: an introduction to mobile web design (start with a
>> basis of semantic HTML, accessibility best practices are Making an
>> app or site mobile friendly - do you create a different site, or do
>> you adapt your existing site for mobile? A brief introduction to
>> Adaptive design - graceful degradation, progressive enhancement,
>> using media queries and viewport to adapt layout, using feature
>> detection to server appropriate content and services, NOT browser
>> sniffing!) - A LOT OF THIS CAN BE SAID IN OTHER ARTICLES, FOR EXAMPLE
>> THE MEDIA QUERIES AND VIEWPORT ARTICLES
>> 
>> Designing a mobile user experience (all about context, what does the
>> user want to do in this context, how does it differ from the
>> desktop, etc.?) THIS CAN BE COVERED IN THE SECTION
>> http://www.w3.org/wiki/WSC_proposed_updates#Planned_New_section_to_replace_.22Web_Design_Concepts.22_-_to_be_called_.22Planning_a_web_site.22
>> 
>> Optimising CSS and JavaScript for mobile - THIS STUFF SHOULD JUSTBE
>> SAID IN THE CSS/JS SECTIONS
>> 
>> Media Queries Viewport Adaptive layouts for mobile (apply the basics
>> you learned in the last two) - THESE THREE CAN BE PLACED IN THE CSS
>> SECTION - http://www.w3.org/wiki/Web_Standards_Curriculum#CSS
>> 
>> Device aware apps (Geolocation, etc.) - THIS CAN BE COMBINED WITH THE
>> GEOLOCATION ARTICLE IN
>> http://www.w3.org/wiki/WSC_proposed_updates#HTML5_APIS
>> 
>> Multimedia on mobile (dealing with images, video, audio) - I NEED TO
>> ADD AN <AUDIO>/<VIDEO> ARTICLE TO THE
>> http://www.w3.org/wiki/Web_Standards_Curriculum#The_HTML_body
>> SECTION
>> 
>> Offline apps for mobile (web storage, AppCache, WebSQL) - CAN BE
>> ADDED TO THE http://www.w3.org/wiki/WSC_proposed_updates#HTML5_APIS
>> SECTION
>> 
>> Putting together a mobile testing suite - NOT SURE ABOUT WHERE TO PUT
>> THIS ONE.
>> 
>> OTHER ARTICLE SUGGESTIONS:
>> 
>> * WE'D PROBABLY BETTER INCLUDE AN ARTICLE ON FEATURE DETECTION,
>> POLYFILLING, AND OTHER MODERN CROSS BROWSER TECHNIQUES
>> 
>> ANY OTHER THOUGHTS - WHAT DO YOU THINK?
>> 
>> On 30 Sep 2011, at 13:17, Lewis Nyman wrote:
>> 
>>> "Mobile Web" is a buzzword right now. I'd happily throw it out in a
>>> client meeting the same I would throw out "HTML5 Web app".
>>> 
>>> In this context I'd like to push for something more progressive. We
>>> aren't trying to sell a bid here. We are defining a curriculum for
>>> future professionals. It could pay to be forward thinking about
>>> this.
>>> 
>>> I'm not against "Mobile and cross device web development" but I do
>>> wonder how meaningful that term will become in a few years time.
>>> "Beyond the Desktop: developing for all devices" or something
>>> similar might be an opportunity to redefine the concept to be more
>>> descriptive.
>>> 
>>> Or we could take this even further, how many years away are we from
>>> traditional desktops and laptops no longer being the primary
>>> device from which to browse the web? We could bake our cross device
>>> principles in to the whole curriculum instead of confining it to
>>> one section.
>>> 
>>> I'd be interested to know what you think.
>>> 
>>> Lewis Nyman 07753103690 www.lewisnyman.co.uk
>>> <http://www.lewisnyman.co.uk/> twitter.com/lewisnyman
>>> <http://twitter.com/lewisnyman>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 30 September 2011 12:36, Chris Mills <cmills@opera.com
>>> <mailto:cmills@opera.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Thanks Lewis - you've made a good point here. Opera advocates one
>>> web too, and I personally strongly agree with this standpoint. I
>>> think some of the article descriptions therefore need to be
>>> rewritten slightly to take into account diverse devices rather than
>>> just "mobiles".
>>> 
>>> The main reason I called it "Mobile web development" is because
>>> regardless of what we think, or what is accurate or right, "mobile
>>> web" is a big buzz word that will attract people to this section.
>>> When we have got them there, we can educate them towards
>>> progressive enhancement, adaptive design and feature detection, and
>>> away from mobile specific sites and browser detection. But a buzz
>>> term is always useful for grabbing people, usually people who
>>> should know better and need to be educated ;-)
>>> 
>>> So what about "Mobile and cross device web development"?
>>> 
>>> On 30 Sep 2011, at 12:20, Lewis Nyman wrote:
>>> 
>>>> This looks really good Chris. I'm wondering how relatable the
>>>> "Mobile Web" section is in contrast with the "One Web" approach
>>>> the W3C advocates?
>>>> 
>>>> The definition section of mobile web actually ends up undefining
>>>> the phrase. Maybe it's worth renaming the whole section "Cross
>>>> Device Development" or something similar? With the "Mobile
>>>> Device" market becoming more and more diverse maybe we need to
>>>> publish techniques towards device agnostic development.
>>>> 
>>>> Lewis Nyman 07753103690 www.lewisnyman.co.uk
>>>> <http://www.lewisnyman.co.uk/> twitter.com/lewisnyman
>>>> <http://twitter.com/lewisnyman>
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On 30 September 2011 10:59, Chris Mills <cmills@opera.com
>>>> <mailto:cmills@opera.com>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> 
>>>> I've been in and restructured the web standards curriculum Wiki
>>>> page - see http://www.w3.org/wiki/Web_Standards_Curriculum
>>>> 
>>>> I removed everything that was half finished/in process/in idea
>>>> form and put it on to the proposed updated page:
>>>> 
>>>> http://www.w3.org/wiki/WSC_proposed_updates
>>>> 
>>>> Can I ask anyone who has an interest to look over the different
>>>> sections and fill them out with article ideas?
>>>> 
>>>> I am pretty proficient in the realm of
>>>> HTML/CSS/Accessibility/Mobile, but I definitely want to find
>>>> people to add ideas to:
>>>> 
>>>> http://www.w3.org/wiki/WSC_proposed_updates#OTHER_THINGS_TO_COVER
>>>> 
>>>> 
> (especially SVG - please grab it and roll it out to it's own
>>>> section. Doug? Jeremie?)
>>>> 
>>>> http://www.w3.org/wiki/WSC_proposed_updates#HTML5_APIS (someone
>>>> please grab Canvas and give it it's own section! Does anyone feel
>>>> like writing any of these?)
>>>> 
>>>> http://www.w3.org/wiki/WSC_proposed_updates#Accessibility_specifics
>>>> 
>>>> 
> (I know a fair amount about a11y, but I'm sure Shawn and
>>>> others on the list who know more than me can improve things)
>>>> 
>>>> Also feel free to add other ideas if you think anything is
>>>> missing.
>>>> 
>>>> Chris Mills Open standards evangelist and dev.opera.com
>>>> <http://dev.opera.com/> editor, Opera Software Co-chair, web
>>>> education community group, W3C
>>>> 
>>>> * Try Opera: http://www.opera.com <http://www.opera.com/> * Learn
>>>> about the latest open standards technologies and techniques:
>>>> http://dev.opera.com <http://dev.opera.com/> * Contribute to web
>>>> education: http://www.w3.org/community/webed/
>>>> 
>>>> 
Received on Friday, 30 September 2011 15:45:46 GMT

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