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Re[2]: CR exit criteria

From: Benoit Bezaire <benoit@itedo.com>
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 10:55:22 -0400
Message-ID: <975422261.20060731105522@itedo.com>
To: WebCGM WG <public-webcgm-wg@w3.org>

Monday, July 31, 2006, 10:20:28 AM, Lofton Henderson wrote:

> See embedded...

> At 11:55 AM 7/31/2006 +0200, Chris Lilley wrote:

>>On Friday, July 28, 2006, 11:04:28 PM, Benoit wrote:
>>
>>BB> Hi,
>>
>>BB>   I've been thinking about the CR exit criteria discussion. Here's my
>>BB>   opinion on it.
>>
>>BB>   First, I think Chris' request is reasonable (that is two
>>BB>   successful passes for each 1.0 and 2.0 tests).
>>
>>To be clear, I'm asking for testing 2.0. Some of the tests to do that are 
>>currently 1.0 tests. I assume that they would need to be identified as 
>>WebCGM 2.0 files,though.

> I have been thinking about this question.

> One way to identify them as 1.0 files is to put them in a place that says,
> "all of these 1.0 tests are valid 2.0 tests".  The other way is to change
> the "1.0" to "2.0" in the MetDesc element in the CGM, to also make that
> change in the graphical text that labels and appears in the legend block of
> the CGM, and regenerate all of the PNG files.

> I have done something like the latter before, when adapting tests from ATA
> to WebCGM.  It's a bit of work.

> While the latter is more appealing from the perspective of "goodness" of
> the test suite, and ought to be done eventually, on the other hand it is
> somewhat "cosmetic".  I would like to think that, for now, we can live with
> the former for CR interoperability purposes ("two pass").

> Thoughts?
I'm ok with the former.

> One more...

>>BB>  There is however a
>>BB>   down side to it, and that is it could slow us down in our progress
>>BB>   to Rec.
>>
>>BB>   Is there middle ground that can be reached? Probably.
>>
>>BB>   I think we would have to agree that no new 1.0 tests can be created.
>>BB>   Dealing with the existing one is plenty for now. If the CGM Open TC
>>BB>   wants to create more tests later; that's up to them, but from a W3C
>>BB>   perspective, we are only dealing with existing 1.0 tests. Ok?
>>
>>That was my proposal, yes.
>>
>>
>>BB>   Also, I don't think the working group should be trying to regroup
>>BB>   the two test suites into a single one. That would be wasted cycles
>>BB>   (in my opinion).
>>BB>
>>BB>   Creating the matrix itself wouldn't take much time, the name of each
>>BB>   test is available in the ICS pro-forma. This is mostly copy/paste
>>BB>   work.
>>
>>BB>   What is time consuming is if vendors provide inaccurate results;
>>
>>Right.
>>
>>BB>   this can't happen. Also each vendor would have to be able to provide
>>BB>   beta versions of their product for someone like Chris to verify the
>>BB>   results.
>>
>>Perhaps we could do some of that at the f2f meeting?

> That's a thought.

> Unfortunately, two of the implementors won't be there (unless we
> invited them, which from QAWG experience is apparently legitimate
> for a "public" group; or maybe we could get a block of Zakim time
> and join them in if there is need for discussion with them.)
Would they be willing to send a beta version to you and/or Chris?

> Btw, the reason I objected earlier to a test by test, vender by
> vender verification of all results, as opposed to spot-check or
> focus on reported problematic tests... Does it make a statement
> about our view of the self-reporting by venders? Does anyone else in
> W3C do this? Do we thereby start to establish new criteria for the
> two-pass convention, "independently verified interop data"? (Plus
> ... it would dump on Chris about 1000 individual test claim
> verifications: 4*250. I'm sure he wouldn't mind that in his spare
> time :-) )
I can only comment on what I've seen in the SVG Working Group.
Basically, it's not in the vendors best interest to claim a PASS if
the actual result is a FAIL. To have an independent reviewer is useful
for those tests that 'unfortunately' require some interpretation.

> -Lofton.

>>BB>  If we get a commitment from all the vendors to provide
>>BB>   prompt and accurate results for each tests, it may be doable in
>>BB>   relatively little time; if that's not the case, I'm afraid we'd be
>>BB>   stuck in CR for a long time.
>>
>>BB>   Thoughts on this?
>>
>>--
>>  Chris Lilley                    mailto:chris@w3.org
>>  Interaction Domain Leader
>>  Co-Chair, W3C SVG Working Group
>>  W3C Graphics Activity Lead
>>  Co-Chair, W3C Hypertext CG

-- 
Regards,
 Benoit   mailto:benoit@itedo.com

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Received on Monday, 31 July 2006 14:55:06 GMT

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