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[widgets] Draft Minutes for 3 September 2009 Voice Conference

From: Arthur Barstow <art.barstow@nokia.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 10:07:50 -0400
Message-Id: <532F86BA-918E-4A06-85B9-F7BA3BE71FE8@nokia.com>
To: public-webapps <public-webapps@w3.org>
The draft minutes from the September 3 Widgets voice conference are  
available at the following and copied below:

  http://www.w3.org/2009/09/03-wam-minutes.html

WG Members - if you have any comments, corrections, etc., please send  
them to the public-webapps mail list before 10 September 2009 (the  
next Widgets voice conference); otherwise these minutes will be  
considered Approved.

-Regards, Art Barstow

    [1]W3C

       [1] http://www.w3.org/

                                - DRAFT -

                        Widgets Voice Conference

03 Sep 2009

    [2]Agenda

       [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/ 
2009JulSep/0935.html

    See also: [3]IRC log

       [3] http://www.w3.org/2009/09/03-wam-irc

Attendees

    Present
           Marcin, Art, Marcos, Arve, Steven, Bryan, Benoit

    Regrets
           Robin, AndyB, Frederick

    Chair
           Art

    Scribe
           Art

Contents

      * [4]Topics
          1. [5]Review and tweak agenda
          2. [6]Announcements
          3. [7]P&C spec: comments from PFWG
          4. [8]P&C spec: IRI/URI normalization
          5. [9]P&C spec: Conformance Checker (CC) requirements
          6. [10]Introduction by Steven Pemberton
          7. [11]widget Interface spec: storage
          8. [12]WARP spec: LC comments from Marcin Hanclik
          9. [13]Widget URIs spec: proposal to publish LCWD
         10. [14]View Modes spec: status
         11. [15]AOB
      * [16]Summary of Action Items
      _________________________________________________________



    <scribe> ScribeNick: ArtB

    <scribe> Scribe: Art

    Date 3 September 2009

Review and tweak agenda

    AB: the draft agenda was posted on September 2 (
    [17]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009JulSep/09
    35.html ). I propose adding View Modes before AOB. Any objections to
    that?
    ... any change requests?

      [17] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/ 
2009JulSep/0935.html

    [ None ]

Announcements

    AB: Reminders on upcoming deadlines: 1) Sep 14 is deadline to
    register for Widgets Testing event (
    [18]http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/TestWorkshop2009 ); 2) Sep
    15 comment deadline for APIs and Events LCWD; 3) Sep 20 comment
    deadline for WARP LCWD
    ... Does anyone have any other short announcements?

      [18] http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/TestWorkshop2009

    [ None ]

P&C spec: comments from PFWG

    AB: on August 27, WAI's Protocols and Formats WG submitted comments
    against the P&C LCWD (
    [19]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009JulSep/08
    43.html ). Although these comments are late, we should still respond
    to them. Note these comments have been added to the P&C post-LCWD
    comment tracker (
    [20]http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/Widgets/PandC-LCWD-28May2009
    ).
    ... Marcos, have you had a chance to review these?

      [19] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/ 
2009JulSep/0843.html
      [20] http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/Widgets/PandC- 
LCWD-28May2009

    MC: just briefly
    ... most related to Conformance Checker

    AB: let's make sure we respond

    MC: OK, will do

    <scribe> ACTION: caceres respond to PFWG's comments on the P+C LCWD
    [recorded in
    [21]http://www.w3.org/2009/09/03-wam-minutes.html#action01]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-399 - Respond to PFWG's comments on the
    P+C LCWD [on Marcos Caceres - due 2009-09-10].

    AB: ok thanks Marcos; I don't consider this urgent

    <arve> sorry for late IRC arrival

P&C spec: IRI/URI normalization

    AB: this topic is continued from our 27 August Voice Conf (
    [22]http://www.w3.org/2009/08/27-wam-minutes.html#item03 ). Has
    anyone received feedback from the I18N WG on this issue (
    [23]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009JulSep/06
    44.html )?
    ... I checked their public mail list and it appears they did not
    meet on Sept 2
    ... but I don't know if they meet weekly or not

      [22] http://www.w3.org/2009/08/27-wam-minutes.html#item03
      [23] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/ 
2009JulSep/0644.html

    MH: they meet later in the day, Europe time

    AB: Marcos, Marcin - have you received any feedback from them?

    MC: no

    MH: no

    AB: OK, I'll ping Addison

    <scribe> ACTION: barstow follow-up with Addisson and Richard and
    I18N Core WG re the URI/IRI normalization issue for the P+C spec
    [recorded in
    [24]http://www.w3.org/2009/09/03-wam-minutes.html#action02]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-400 - Follow-up with Addisson and Richard
    and I18N Core WG re the URI/IRI normalization issue for the P+C spec
    [on Arthur Barstow - due 2009-09-10].

    AB: anything else on that topic today?

    [ No ]

P&C spec: Conformance Checker (CC) requirements

    AB: on IRC yesterday, Marcos raised the question "What are we going
    to do if no one implements the Conformance Checker (CC)
    requirements?".

    MC: a question is how to we progress the spec if no one implements
    the CC reqs
    ... we could make a call for implemenations
    ... and try to get a commitment
    ... Robin indicated in IRC that he could do an impl
    ... but I think we want "commericially viable" impls
    ... we need impls beyond academic proof of concepts

    AB: what is the status from the MWTS WG on this?

    MC: I don't have a update
    ... they did a "quick-and-dirty" impl
    ... as part of their validation service
    ... an add on to that service would be good

    AB: is anyone willing to extend what MWTS has done to meet our reqs?

    [ No ]

    AB: I guess at this point, all we can say is that at the end of CR
    we may have some testable assertions for which there is no impl
    ... perhaps we will be OK if we have test cases and 2 or more impls
    for the P+C UA product

    <Marcos> [25]http://dev.w3.org/2006/waf/widgets/tests/

      [25] http://dev.w3.org/2006/waf/widgets/tests/

    AB: even though we may not have impls for the CC product

    MC: my priority at the moment is the P+C UA product
    ... we will probably have about 200 tests

    AB: anything else on testing Marcos?

    MC: I am having some issues with CVS

    MH: I was having a similar issue a few weeks ago
    ... Kai and Dom can help here

    MC: OK; I'll try that

    AB: Marcos, if you continue to have problems let me know

    MC: looking back, we should have built the test suite during Last
    Call and not wait until CR
    ... before we progress any other spec to CR, we should do real work
    on the test suite
    ... especially for Widgets Interface and WARP specs
    ... as well as Widgets URI spec

    AB: that seems like a good idea to me

Introduction by Steven Pemberton

    AB: Steven, thanks for joining us!

    SP: I am based in Amsterdam
    ... been involved with XHMTL, HTML, XForms, CSS, etc.
    ... involved with two WGs and some various Task Forces
    ... I was asked to help with this group but my time is limited

    AB: OK; thanks for joining and we look forward to having your
    expertise to help us!

widget Interface spec: storage

    AB: last week we discussed Scott Wilson's thread (
    [26]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009JulSep/07
    83.html ) related to the Web Storage spec (
    [27]http://dev.w3.org/html5/webstorage/ ). Marcos, during our 27
    August call you indicated (
    [28]http://www.w3.org/2009/08/27-wam-minutes.html#item06 ) you were
    going to send a response to Scott.

      [26] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/ 
2009JulSep/0783.html
      [27] http://dev.w3.org/html5/webstorage/
      [28] http://www.w3.org/2009/08/27-wam-minutes.html#item06

    MC: I haven't completed that yet
    ... but I will respond before the end of the week

    AB: anything else on this topic?
    ... a new WD of the Web Storage WD should be published next week
    ... we need that spec to continue given our dependency on it

WARP spec: LC comments from Marcin Hanclik

    AB: on August 27, Marcin submitted comments (
    [29]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009JulSep/08
    44.html ) for the WARP LCWD. We want detailed discussions to occur
    on public-webapps but let's take some time now to let Marcin
    summarize his proposed changes.

      [29] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/ 
2009JulSep/0844.html

    MH: the access element and its syntax and semantics
    ... it would be changed to be based on the feature element
    ... I propose some syntax changes
    ... the subdomain attr is problematic e.g. doesn't support more
    protocols
    ... the uri attr is also a prob
    ... e.g. the value "*" is too loose
    ... I propose we move from the access element to the feature element
    ... Need to support other protocols beyond http e.g. tel:, sms:,
    etc.

    MC: we also thought about enabling network via the feature element
    ... but we think using access element simplifies the model a bit
    ... Doing it all via feature is a bit convoluted
    ... The sec policy will permit or not stuff like tel:
    ... The feature stuff should eventually go away as things get
    included by the UA; that they will be there by default
    ... I see some value in Marcin's proposal but I prefer the current
    model
    ... Want to hear more feedback from the WG

    MH: we need to define security and policy
    ... and that is the scope of the DAP WG
    ... don't think WARP should define security model or policy
    ... there are several use cases we need to consider against warp
    e.g. mailto:

    MC: I think we should take this up on the mail list

    MH: I'm OK with that
    ... please answer my e-mail

    MC: I will but after I take care of some P+C issues
    ... I do think we think about whether WARP is too over-reaching
    ... and I also agree we may need to discuss this with DAP

    MH: should we Cc: DAP WG?

    MC: I don't think so; I suspect WARP will end up going back to WD

    AB: further discussions should continue on public-webapps
    ... the deadline for comments for WARP LC is 20 September
    ... are there related discussion in BONDI about WARP?

    MH: yes
    ... BONDI has an access requirement
    ... we need something like WARP
    ... but we access to be done via features
    ... we defined an element that similar to WARP's <access> but it is
    different
    ... BONDI wants to be based on W3C spec

    AB: any last comments on this topic?

Widget URIs spec: proposal to publish LCWD

    AB: on September 2 Robin completed his action to get the Widget URIs
    spec ready for LCWD (
    [30]http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2006/waf/widgets-uri/ ). By publishing
    a LCWD we are stating the spec is functionally complete and meets
    all of the relevant requirements. Are there any objections to
    publishing this document as LCWD?

      [30] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2006/waf/widgets-uri/

    MC: I have reservations
    ... I sent a bunch of feedback about one hour ago

    AB: I haven't looked at it

    MC: the spec meets the relevant reqs
    ... but it doesn't define everything that it should
    ... it also doesn't have a Conformance section
    ... and doesn't define a "product"
    ... I think Robin should fix the problems I found before we publish
    it
    ... If he fixes the issues I raised, I think we would have a better
    LCWD document

    AB: what do others think?
    ... Do we wait until Robin addresses MC's concerns or publish as is?

    MC: I think we should fix the problems first

    MH: I need to review MC's comments
    ... if Robin can fix MC's comments RS that would be good

    Bryan: I support that as well

    AB: you mean you want MC's comments addressed first?

    Bryan: yes

    AB: I'm hearing the majority of people want to postpone publication
    until Robin has addressed MC's comments
    ... so that's what we will do
    ... anything else on this topic for today?

    [ No ]

View Modes spec: status

    AB: Marcin, what is the status of the View Modes spec (
    [31]http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2006/waf/widgets-vm/ ). Has the spec
    been split?

      [31] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2006/waf/widgets-vm/

    MH: the spec isn't split yet but I intend to do the split by the end
    of the week

    AB: excellent
    ... any other status to report?

    MH: not today

    AB: anyone else have something for this topic?

    [ No ]

AOB

    MH: regarding TPAC
    ... can attend as a group participant
    ... or as an Observer
    ... the UI of the registration form doesn't permit a person to
    register as a participant for two WGs on the same day

    Bryan: I have the same issue

    AB: I'll raise this issue with our Team Contacts

    Benoit: WebApps will have two rooms, right?

    AB: yes
    ... any other AOB items?
    ... Next meeting: next week, same logistics. This meeting is
    adjourned.

Summary of Action Items

    [NEW] ACTION: barstow follow-up with Addisson and Richard and I18N
    Core WG re the URI/IRI normalization issue for the P+C spec
    [recorded in
    [32]http://www.w3.org/2009/09/03-wam-minutes.html#action02]
    [NEW] ACTION: caceres respond to PFWG's comments on the P+C LCWD
    [recorded in
    [33]http://www.w3.org/2009/09/03-wam-minutes.html#action01]

    [End of minutes]
Received on Thursday, 3 September 2009 14:09:09 GMT

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