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[widgets] Minutes from 29 January 2009 Voice Conference

From: Arthur Barstow <art.barstow@nokia.com>
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 11:08:19 -0500
Message-Id: <8920127D-5AB9-4E17-B295-BC5F48BF800D@nokia.com>
To: public-webapps <public-webapps@w3.org>

The minutes from the January 29 Widgets voice conference are  
available at the following and copied below:

     <http://www.w3.org/2009/01/29-wam-minutes.html>

WG Members - if you have any comments, corrections, etc., please send  
them to the public-webapps mail list before 5 February 2009 (the next  
Widgets voice conference); otherwise these minutes will be considered  
Approved.

-Regards, Art Barstow


    [1]W3C

       [1] http://www.w3.org/

                                - DRAFT -

                        Widgets Voice Conference

29 Jan 2009

    [2]Agenda

       [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/ 
2009JanMar/0227.html

    See also: [3]IRC log

       [3] http://www.w3.org/2009/01/29-wam-irc

Attendees

    Present
           Art, Arve, Andy, Jere, Mark, Bryan, Marcos, Benoit, Mike

    Regrets
    Chair
           Art

    Scribe
           Art

Contents

      * [4]Topics
          1. [5]Review and tweak agenda
          2. [6]Announcements
          3. [7]Requirements for Window modes:
          4. [8]Renaming "thumbnail" to "screenshot"?
          5. [9]SVG dependency
          6. [10]File extension and MIME mapping
          7. [11]Zip files and Encoding:
          8. [12]API and Events spec: getting to FPWD:
          9. [13]Proposal to change VC time to one hour earlier
      * [14]Summary of Action Items
      _________________________________________________________



    <marcos> bb in 2 mins

    <scribe> ScribeNick: ArtB

    <scribe> Scribe: Art

    Date: 29 January 2009

    <Bryan> Bryan is here, on chat only

Review and tweak agenda

    AB: any change requests?
    ... agenda is
    [15]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009JanMar/02
    27.html

      [15] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/ 
2009JanMar/0227.html

    [None]

Announcements

    AB: Andy, brief intro please

    <Benoit> p

    Andy: with Sony Ericsson for over 2 years;
    ... work with North America operators
    ... I work with Web technologies
    ... trying to get my bearings wrt to W3C

    AB: Marcos mentioned in IRC today there will be Mobile Widget
    Workshop
    ... in Madrid this April as part of WWW2009.
    ... For details see
    [16]http://www.research.att.com/~rjana/mobea2009.htm
    ... Deadline is Feb 12 for papers
    ... It's not really an announcement per se but a forward pointer to
    the AOB agenda item I want to talk about moving this call to one
    hour earlier on a permanent basis.
    ... does anyone have any other short announcements they'd like to
    make?

      [16] http://www.research.att.com/~rjana/mobea2009.htm

    [None]

Requirements for Window modes:

    AB: last week our discussion about window modes started to "rat
    hole" in that we were conflating a few different concepts
    ... Mark agreed to create some requirements
    ... Action-291: [17]http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/track/actions/291
    ... Mark, what is the status?

      [17] http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/track/actions/291

    MP: I've had some internal discussions but nothing yet to share with
    the group
    ... there were some additional comments on the list and I haven't
    followed them yet
    ... will be next week before I can address this action

    AB: ok; please let's continue this discussion

    Arve: how does this effect P&C 1.0

    MC: I'm not sure at this point
    ... I think we have general consensus on the names
    ... but we still need to discuss the related process model for each
    name

    Arve: would we need to go back to WD or a 2nd LCWD

    AB: I don't know the answer

    <scribe> ACTION: barstow if we make significant changes to P&C LC,
    do we need to go back to WD? [recorded in
    [18]http://www.w3.org/2009/01/29-wam-minutes.html#action01]

    MS: there is no hard and fast rule here
    ... we can resolve this now
    ... we don't have to go back unnecessarily

    AB: I think it's a bit premature to make a resolution on this
    ... any comments on that?

    MC: I agree; we should think about this in a week or two and see how
    much the spec changes

    AB: I think that's a reasonable way forward
    ... any disagreements?

    [None]

Renaming "thumbnail" to "screenshot"?

    AB: Marcos raised this issue via
    <[19]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009JanMar/0
    174.html>
    ... I don't recall much support for the proposal
    ... Marcos, what's the status?

      [19] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/ 
2009JanMar/0174.html%3E

    MC: I think it makes sense to change it to screenshot

    Arve: neither proposal is particuarly acurate description of the
    image

    MC: what is the role of the image?

    Arve: the image varies a lot
    ... the image is displayed to provide information

    <Benoit> As a user's perspective then in gallery it would make sens
    to use the word screenshot

    Arve: an image can have multiple roles
    ... OTOH, I don't think this is a big deal

    MC: I'd like to go with screenshot

    BS: I agree with Marcos

    JK: want to understand the purpose of the image
    ... thumbnail is used within the device e.g. in a gallery
    ... that's different than an image on a web site

    AB: Mark, is this topic something you will include in your input for
    the window mode action

    MP: no, I wasn't
    ... see them as separate

    MC: I will refine the requirements re thumbnails, etc in the Reqs
    doc

    AB: so will you let us know when that is done?

    MC: yes

SVG dependency

    AB: Boris raised an issue regarding the P&C spec's SVG dependency
    ... See
    <[20]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009JanMar/0
    212.html>
    ... since then, Doug Schepers has responded
    ... See
    [21]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009JanMar/02
    33.html
    ... Marcos, what's the status?

      [20] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/ 
2009JanMar/0212.html%3E
      [21] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/ 
2009JanMar/0233.html

    MC: Boris' viewpoint is correct
    ... I was looking at it differently
    ... Conformance checker and author reqs are different
    ... Doug mentioned a bunch of different capabilities of SVG
    ... he recommends we recommend a subset of SVG

    Arve: has anyone defined such a profile already?

    MC: no and I think it would be painful to do so
    ... we'd have to tell authors not to use certain elements for
    example
    ... and get into spec'ing behavior diffs

    AB: I think we need more information/data from implementors of the
    Widget UA

    JK: could we use MIME type to help?

    Arve: all profiles today include some features we may not want to
    support

    AB: my recommendation is we continue to discuss this on the public
    mail list

    MC: I think we shold drop SVG icon format for v1

    Arve: I would expect some operators to require SVG icon format

    AB: there's an action for everyone to talk to the impl teams and
    bring back some data to help inform this decision

    Arve: some functionality like scripting we don't want to support
    ... there are other things we also don't want to have to support
    ... the SVG WG can help us understand if there is some way to say
    particualar features are not supported

    <scribe> ACTION: Barstow followup with Doug and Mike to coordinate
    this issue with the SVG WG [recorded in
    [22]http://www.w3.org/2009/01/29-wam-minutes.html#action02]

    Arve: I think Erik is a co-Chair

    MS: we can include Cameron too as he is the other co-Chair

File extension and MIME mapping

    AB: Boris raised an issue re file extensions and MIME mapping
    ... see
    <[23]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2009JanMar/0
    173.html>
    ... Marcos, what's the essence of the issue?

      [23] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/ 
2009JanMar/0173.html%3E

    MC: we understand this is an issue
    ... we can work with Hixie and at least someone else on an Internet
    Draft
    ... He thinks we need a robust table of mappings
    ... I think we already have such a table
    ... We also need to consider the security implications

    <MikeSmith>
    [24]http://webblaze.cs.berkeley.edu/2009/mime-sniff/mime-sniff.txt

      [24] http://webblaze.cs.berkeley.edu/2009/mime-sniff/mime- 
sniff.txt

    JK: so you aren't interested in a manifest within the package to
    address this

    MC: no widget engine has needed it so far
    ... thus I'm not convinced we need it
    ... I can put it in; just follow Apache

    <MikeSmith>
    [25]http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-abarth-mime-sniff-00

      [25] http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-abarth-mime-sniff-00

    MC: There is a risk of hijacking

    AB: could we push this manifest to v2?

    MC: yes; if it isn't on the v2 list then I will add it

    AB: what's the next step then Marcos

    MC: I think we need impl feedback

    AB: so we could go to Candidate with the table essentially as is and
    see if implementors raise Red Flags?

    MC: yes

Zip files and Encoding:

    AB: I think the main issue is that ZIP files aren't particularly
    portable from OS to OS
    ... Marcos wrote about it in his blog:
    <[26]http://datadriven.com.au/2008/12/08/zip-files-and-encoding-i-ha
    te-you/>
    ... I think one of the questions for us is basically - what, if
    anything, we need to do about this beyond what we've already
    spec'ed.
    ... Marcos, WDYT?

      [26] http://datadriven.com.au/2008/12/08/zip-files-and-encoding- 
i-hate-you/%3E

    MC: I don't think is going to be a huge problem
    ... I think developers will understand the problem and deal with it
    ... The only "real" solution is ZIP being standardized in some place
    like ISO
    ... I don't think we want to wait for that.

    AB: comemnts?

    JK: could mandate UTF-8 for filenames

    Arve: yes we could mandate that but the tools that are used may not
    be able to support that
    ... I don't think we want to mandate special tools
    ... We have some agreed Design Goals about re-use of existing tools,
    specs, etc.
    ... We must make authoring as simple as possible

    MC: I agree with the Arve's comments

    AB: so we could address this by taking Jere's recommendation but it
    would result in some issues with authoring

    JK: there could be a conformance service that helps normalize this
    issue
    ... e.g. it is used before a Widget is deployed

    Arve: I don't think adding that into the process pipeline will work
    in practice

    MC: I think the best we can do is warn authors about this and we
    already do that
    ... we recommend UTF8 but can't mandate it

API and Events spec: getting to FPWD:

    AB: I submitted some comments to Arve via IRC earlier this week and
    I believe Arve has addressed them all
    ... see [27]http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/webapps/20090127
    ... Arve has made additional edits
    <[28]http://dev.w3.org/2006/waf/widgets-api/>
    ... Arve, what's the status?

      [27] http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/webapps/20090127
      [28] http://dev.w3.org/2006/waf/widgets-api/%3E

    Arve: I've received a bunch of comments; thanks All!
    ... I think I have addressed every comment I have received
    ... check v1.8
    ... Still no Refs or Acks sections

    AB: I propose we agree this document is ready for a FPWD
    ... any objections?

    [None]

    RESOLUTION: the API and Events spec is ready for FPWD

    AB: thanks Arve and Marcos
    ... ACTION: barstow submit paperwork to publish FPWD of APIs and
    Events spec

Proposal to change VC time to one hour earlier

    AB: changing the VC time is always a tough issue because there is no
    real win-win here all of our world wide participants.
    ... nevertheless, are there any objections to moving the VC time to
    one hour earlier?

    <Bryan> One hour earlier conflicts with UWA

    AB: Bryan, that is a real bummer

    <Bryan> It's a problem for me, but I guess I can switch off

    AB: Bryan, what does "switch off" mean?

    <Bryan> Alternate

    AB: Bryan, do you object to this proposal?

    <Bryan> No, just fyi

    RESOLUTION: the new voice conference time moving forward will be one
    hour earlier

    AB: any other biz?

    MC: I will not be on next week's call

    AB: good luck next week with your PhD defense!

    Benoit: any comments on the f2f document?
    ...
    [29]http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/images/3/3f/OrangeLab-Issy-v
    enue.pdf
    ... any changes in attendance?

      [29] http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/images/3/3f/OrangeLab- 
Issy-venue.pdf

    AB: Arve changed to "likely"

Summary of Action Items

    [NEW] ACTION: Barstow followup with Doug and Mike to coordinate this
    issue with the SVG WG [recorded in
    [30]http://www.w3.org/2009/01/29-wam-minutes.html#action02]
    [NEW] ACTION: barstow if we make significant changes to P&C LC, do
    we need to go back to WD? [recorded in
    [31]http://www.w3.org/2009/01/29-wam-minutes.html#action01]

    [End of minutes]
Received on Thursday, 29 January 2009 16:10:27 GMT

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