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Re: Regarding DOM 3 Tests Format

From: Doug Schepers <schepers@w3.org>
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 02:57:47 -0400
Message-ID: <48D1FBEB.6060102@w3.org>
To: Garrett Smith <dhtmlkitchen@gmail.com>
CC: "public-webapps@w3.org" <public-webapps@w3.org>

Hi, Garrett-

Please stop.  If you post any more messages to the list like your last
two, Mike and I will have to suspend your posting privileges, and
consult with the co-chairs (Chaals and Art) when or if you should be
allow to post again (such as in 2 weeks).

May I suggest, in all seriousness, that you step back, take a few
breaths, and reconsider how you want to treat people and to be treated.
 I hear your frustration, and if there's something that we can do to
make this a more pleasant and productive working environment for
everyone, yourself included, we will strive to do it.  But we all know
this isn't it.

I'd ask everyone to stop posting on this thread until one of the chairs
decides what to do.  Thanks.


Garrett Smith wrote (on 9/18/08 2:35 AM):
> On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 11:01 PM, Maciej Stachowiak <mjs@apple.com> wrote:
>> On Sep 17, 2008, at 10:29 PM, Garrett Smith wrote:
>>> Hey Chaals, What makes you think that your pious and arrogant attitude
>>> makes you a moderator?  You have no right to dictate what I can say.
>> The fact that Chaals is a co-Chair of the Web Applications working group
>> makes him a moderator of this mailing list, whatever you may think of his
>> attitude. <http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/charter/>
>> As co-Chair, it his responsibility to ensure the W3C Process is followed.
>> The Individual Participation Criteria in the charter require, among other
>> things, "Social competence in one's role".
>> <http://www.w3.org/2005/10/Process-20051014/policies.html#ParticipationCriteria>
>> Your repeated rudeness, hostility, personal attacks on Working Group members
>> and lack of constructive contribution demonstrate a significant lack of
>> social competence.
> Oh really. So, Maciej, where exactly did you get your degree in
> "internet behaviorology"? Please explain this, because what you wrote
> sounds like a personal character attack (to me).
> You're responses to me have always been hostile/negative. You've
> *never once* replied to *any* personal mail I've sent you, even when
> you initiated. Yes I've pointed out your mistakes on the list but
> never in a nasty way. You strike me as someone who is somewhat
> intelligent, not used to being criticized, and (although I've never
> mentioned it) extremely arrogant. I usually just dismiss your attitude
> as unimportant and focus on whatever substance you have to say. I get
> the sense that you have developed a personal dislike and I think that
> you picking up this thread to say stuff like that proves it.
>> I commend Chaals on his decision to help you stick to the
> Of course you would commend Chaals, even for something he didn't do,
> if it had a way to insult me. You have demonstrated that you have a
> personal problem with me. I am an individual. I am not representing a
> company, so that is a fairly safe move.
>> Individual Participation Criteria. Should you continue to fail to do so, I
>> hope he will take appropriate measures to keep you from disrupting the
>> Working Group further.
> I provided a non-malicious code review. If public webapps is going to
> proceed with broken code, I'd say that that behavior is disruptive to
> the web. I do know about testing and my feedback is relevant.
> What I see on a larger picture here are a few companies, including
> yours (Apple) who are vying to get their APIs approved. The idea takes
> a back seat to the company. This is counterproductive and destructive
> to the web. It causes harm.
> Working for Apple doesn't make your ideas any more valid. It doesn't
> make you an authority to decide whether or not I am socially competent
> and making such statements is a personal attack on my character.  If
> you are trying to discourage "personal attacks", you are not setting
> much of an example.
> You don't seem to like to have it pointed out when you're wrong.
> Instead, you would rather retaliate by calling me names. I guess you
> would call this behavior "socially competent behavior."
> Garrett
>> Regards,
>   ^^^^^^^^^^
> Insincere.
>> Maciej
>>> And this:
>>> Garrett Smith <dhtmlkitchen@gmail.com>
>>> cc      Arthur Barstow <art.barstow@nokia.com>,
>>> Doug Schepers <schepers@w3.org>,
>>> "mike@w3.org" <mike@w3.org>
>>> Is *not* "Private mail".  Only you would know why you mailed multiple
>>> people and called it "private". I'm putting this on the list so we can
>>> see what kind of person "Chaals" is.
>>> It looks like you took it upon yourself to go out of your way to
>>> describe me as inappropriate, accusatory, counter-productive and
>>> attacking. You then asked me to stick to "demonstrable" facts.
>>> We don't really know why you did this.   I pointed out the OP's
>>> mistakes, asked him some questions, and followed with my opinion of
>>> the relevance of YUI Test (Re Hallvord's Comments).  Nobody should
>>> discourage code reviews. Especially not for code that is supposed to
>>> be taken seriously.
>>> Garrett
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> From: Charles McCathieNevile <chaals@opera.com>
>>> Date: Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 5:33 AM
>>> Subject: Re: Regarding DOM 3 Tests Format
>>> To: Garrett Smith <dhtmlkitchen@gmail.com>
>>> Cc: Arthur Barstow <art.barstow@nokia.com>, Doug Schepers
>>> <schepers@w3.org>, "mike@w3.org" <mike@w3.org>
>>> Private mail:
>>> On Wed, 17 Sep 2008 03:56:35 +0200, Garrett Smith
>>> <dhtmlkitchen@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 11:12 AM, Carmelo Montanez <carmelo@nist.gov>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Hi Folks:
>>>>> I am getting ready to submit a number of tests and wanted to get your
>>>>> feedback on format.  We already agreed
>>>>> on a template a few weeks back.  This follows on that format.  Just
>>>>> wanted
>>>>> to get your view before I go forward.
>>>>> See attached files.
>>>> You obviously did not try running this in any browser.
>>> Hi Garrett,
>>> please refrain from making assumptions about what people do. Opening a
>>> mail with an accusatory or attacking tone of this nature is
>>> counter-productive, and therefore inappropriate for this working
>>> group.
>>> Please keep your comments to demonstrable facts and a more positive
>>> tone in future.
>>> thanks
>>> Chaals
>>> --
>>> Charles McCathieNevile  Opera Software, Standards Group
>>>  je parle français -- hablo español -- jeg lærer norsk
>>> http://my.opera.com/chaals   Try Opera 9.5: http://www.opera.com

-Doug Schepers
W3C Team Contact, SVG and WebApps WGs
Received on Thursday, 18 September 2008 06:58:24 UTC

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