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Minutes, DOM3 Events Telcon, 26 March 2008

From: Doug Schepers <schepers@w3.org>
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 16:18:39 -0400
Message-ID: <47EAAF9F.2070709@w3.org>
To: public-webapi@w3.org

Hi, WebAPI Fans-

The minutes of the DOM3 Events Telcon Agenda, 26 March 2008 can be found at:

   http://www.w3.org/2008/03/26-webapi-minutes.html

Or as textInput below:

    [1]W3C

       [1] http://www.w3.org/

                                - DRAFT -

                        Web API WG Teleconference
                               26 Mar 2008

    [2]Agenda

       [2] http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/26_Mar_2008

    See also: [3]IRC log

       [3] http://www.w3.org/2008/03/26-webapi-irc

Attendees

    Present
           Doug, Carmelo, aemmons, [Microsoft], smaug, Travis,
           +1.408.996.aaaa

    Regrets
    Chair
           Schepers

    Scribe
           Olli Pettay

Contents

      * [4]Topics
          1. [5]key event sequence model:
          2. [6]Issue/Action review
          3. [7]HTML4 vs DOM events
          4. [8]Keyflow
          5. [9]cmd +/-
      * [10]Summary of Action Items
      _________________________________________________________



    <trackbot> Date: 26 March 2008

    Zakim: who is on the phone

    <shepazu> Scribe: Olli Pettay

    <shepazu> scribeNick: smaug

key event sequence model:

    <shepazu>
    [11]http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/Key_event_order#Proposed_Ord
    er_for_Key-Related_Events

      [11] 
http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/Key_event_order#Proposed_Order_for_Key-Related_Events

    <shepazu>
    [12]http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/DOM-Level-3-Events/proposals/d3e-k
    eyflow.svg

      [12] 
http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/DOM-Level-3-Events/proposals/d3e-keyflow.svg

    DS: (the diagram does look right on firefox)
    ... going through the diagram

    TL: will look how this work on IE

    DS: everybody should look how "their" browser work
    ... I'm happy modify the diagram some more
    ... the middle textInput, currently there isn't repeat in DOM. We
    should probably add it
    ... repeat="true" might only happen on character keys
    ... not sure where IME should go

Issue/Action review

    <shepazu> [13]http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/webapi/products/2

      [13] http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/webapi/products/2

    <shepazu> [14]http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/webapi/users/41

      [14] http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/webapi/users/41

    DS: going through the actions

    OP: I don't think I can take actions officially yet

    <shepazu> [15]http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/webapi/users/37

      [15] http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/webapi/users/37

    DS: TL any progress on that action?

    <Travis> I'll try to find my old test and post it.

    <shepazu> [16]http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/webapi/users/46

      [16] http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/webapi/users/46

    <shepazu> [17]http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/webapi/users/44

      [17] http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/webapi/users/44

    AE: I was going to work on mousewheel event today but got some email
    from smaug about that

    <shepazu>
    [18]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapi/2008Mar/0202.h
    tml

      [18] 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapi/2008Mar/0202.html

    DS: reviewing the email
    ... It shouldn't be hard to test if wheelDelta is zero
    ... the new event wouldn't break existing pages

    the previous proposal
    [19]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapi/2006May/0029.h
    tml

      [19] 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapi/2006May/0029.html

    from apple

    TL:
    [20]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapi/2008Mar/0202.h
    tml might be the best compromise
    ... but need to specify the order of the events

      [20] 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapi/2008Mar/0202.html

    DS: everybody seem to be ok with the wheel event
    ... I'll modify the wheel event proposal

    CM: it could help SVg

    DS: we're getting rid of the mega-multi-mousewheel

HTML4 vs DOM events

    TL: what the HTML4 event listener behaviour is vs DOM event
    listeners

    OP: we should look at HTML5

    <ohunt> hihi

    <shepazu> heyeh

    <ohunt> sprry for being late

    <shepazu> very sprry indeed

    <ohunt> :p

    <shepazu> gonna call in?

    [21]http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#event3

      [21] http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#event3

    <oliver> victory

    <Travis> HTML5 on events:
    [22]http://www.w3.org/html/wg/html5/#events

      [22] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/html5/#events

    TL: IE keeps separete list for HTML event listeners

    "inline handler"

    TL: html event listeners fires first

    <shepazu> "When scripting is enabled, all event handler attributes
    on an element, whether set to null or to a function, must be
    registered as event listeners on the element, as if the
    addEventListenerNS() method on the Element object's EventTarget
    interface had been invoked when the element was created, with the
    event type (type argument) equal to the type described for the event
    handler attribute in the list above, the namespace (namespaceURI
    argument) set to null,

    TL: could set listener using html attribute and then remove using
    removeEventListener?

    DS: SVG has the same issue
    ... TL, are you willing to change how IE does this?

    TL: we have things to do to get normal event to work. but yes, we
    could change it

    should there be some way to enumerate event listeners

    DS: goes to the point that there should be only one list of
    listeners
    ... the only issue is removing the listener
    ... if parameters are all the same, removing listener could remove
    the attribute from DOM?

    <scribe> ACTION: Travis Test addEventListener vs onFoo attribute
    [recorded in
    [23]http://www.w3.org/2008/03/26-webapi-minutes.html#action01]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-266 - Test addEventListener vs onFoo
    attribute [on Travis Leithead - due 2008-04-02].

    TL: could propose something for enumerating listeners

    DS: don't want to add too many things to DOM 3 Events

    <shepazu> ACTION: Travis to make proposal for event iterator
    [recorded in
    [24]http://www.w3.org/2008/03/26-webapi-minutes.html#action02]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-267 - Make proposal for event iterator [on
    Travis Leithead - due 2008-04-02].

    DS: back to the key flow

Keyflow

    <shepazu>
    [25]http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/DOM-Level-3-Events/proposals/d3e-k
    eyflow.svg

      [25] 
http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/DOM-Level-3-Events/proposals/d3e-keyflow.svg

    OH: not sure you always get a keypress
    ... because of IME

    DS: should be noted in the spec that one should not rely on the
    keypress

    <oliver> The problem is that the keypress event has a more or lesss
    1:1 correspondaence to WM_CHAR

    <oliver> which other platforms don't actually have

    DS: DOM 3 keyevents would be the model for the web
    ... I'm looking at the most implementable

    OH: someone else to give feedback what webkit does

    DS: would be great to get feedback from everyone
    ... will have some proposal for mobile keys next week

cmd +/-

    <shepazu> [26]http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/webapi/issues/79

      [26] http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/webapi/issues/79

    <shepazu> "Command-= and Command-Shift-= and Command-+ are, or are
    not, the same key on my

    <shepazu> keyboard, and I don't know how to write content that
    handle Command-Minus and

    <shepazu> Command-Plus independent of what the layout actually is,
    especially given that I

    <shepazu> might also want to distinguish Command-= and
    Command-Shift-= sometimes."

    DS: is this really a serious issue?
    ... you get events for all the keys

    OH: IME may affect to the input?

    DS: specifying IME handling should take care of this
    ... authors should rely on keydown and textinput

    <scribe> ACTION: TL to test zoom in/out on keyboard [recorded in
    [27]http://www.w3.org/2008/03/26-webapi-minutes.html#action03]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-268 - Test zoom in/out on keyboard [on
    Travis Leithead - due 2008-04-02].

    DS: something wrong in my model...

    TL: many laptops have customizable keys

    should we have more generic input events?

    <shepazu> trackbot, end telcon

Summary of Action Items

    [NEW] ACTION: TL to test zoom in/out on keyboard [recorded in
    [28]http://www.w3.org/2008/03/26-webapi-minutes.html#action03]
    [NEW] ACTION: Travis Test addEventListener vs onFoo attribute
    [recorded in
    [29]http://www.w3.org/2008/03/26-webapi-minutes.html#action01]
    [NEW] ACTION: Travis to make proposal for event iterator [recorded
    in [30]http://www.w3.org/2008/03/26-webapi-minutes.html#action02]

    [End of minutes]
      _________________________________________________________


     Minutes formatted by David Booth's [31]scribe.perl version 1.133
     ([32]CVS log)
     $Date: 2008/03/26 20:08:47 $
      _________________________________________________________

      [31] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
      [32] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/

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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/aproskuryakov@apple.com/ /
Found Scribe: Olli Pettay
Found ScribeNick: smaug
Default Present: Doug, Carmelo, aemmons, [Microsoft], smaug, Travis, +1
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Present: Doug Carmelo aemmons [Microsoft] smaug Travis +1.408.996.aaaa
Agenda: [34]http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/26_Mar_2008
Found Date: 26 Mar 2008
Guessing minutes URL: [35]http://www.w3.org/2008/03/26-webapi-minutes.h
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People with action items: tl travis

      [34] http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/26_Mar_2008
      [35] http://www.w3.org/2008/03/26-webapi-minutes.html

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