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Minutes, DOM3 Events Telcon, 16 April 2008

From: Doug Schepers <schepers@w3.org>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 16:07:26 -0400
Message-ID: <48065C7E.4020505@w3.org>
To: Web API public <public-webapi@w3.org>

Hi, WebAPI fans-

The minutes for the DOM3 Events telcon on 16 April 2008 can be found here:

  http://www.w3.org/2008/04/16-webapi-minutes.html

Or as text below:

    [1]W3C

       [1] http://www.w3.org/

                                - DRAFT -

                        Web API WG Teleconference
                               16 Apr 2008

    See also: [2]IRC log

       [2] http://www.w3.org/2008/04/16-webapi-irc

Attendees

    Present
           [Microsoft], Doug, aemmons, Carmelo

    Regrets
    Chair
           Doug

    Scribe
           Travis

Contents

      * [3]Topics
          1. [4]event iterator proposal
          2. [5]wiki access
          3. [6]key events and key identifiers
      * [7]Summary of Action Items
      _________________________________________________________



    <trackbot> Date: 16 April 2008

    <shepazu> [8]http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/D3E_Scraps

       [8] http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/D3E_Scraps

    <Travis> script: Travis

    <Travis> scribe: Travis

    <scribe> scribeNick: IRC Travis

    <Travis> AE: Meeting has started

    <Travis> ... planning next meeting.

    <Travis> shepazu: Carmelo have you started testing keyboard related
    stuff?

    <Travis> Carmelo: have made keycode/charcode progress...

    <Travis> aemmons: Let's chat about event iterator discussion from
    the list

    <Travis> ... much of discussion was around use-cases...

event iterator proposal

    <shepazu> mjs, are you interested in discussing event iterator?

    <mjs> shepazu: I don't have much to add besides what I said already,
    and wanting to hear the use cases that justify it

    <shepazu> mjs, ok

    <mjs> those use cases would be better presented in email, but I'd be
    happy to hear them by phone too

    <aemmons>
    [9]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapi/2008Apr/0066.ht
    ml

       [9] 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapi/2008Apr/0066.html

    <shepazu>
    [10]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapi/2008Apr/0066.h
    tml

      [10] 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapi/2008Apr/0066.html

    <mjs> shepazu: so please let me know if I can contribute anything
    useful, and I'll gladly call in for that topic

    <shepazu> ok, thanks

    <Travis> aemmons: previous proposal for hasEventListener

    <Travis> shepazu: less usefull in my opinion

    <Travis> aemmons: mjs wants to really discuss if we need it at all
    (use-case analysis)

    <Travis> shepazu: I find strong case for this iterator--others don't
    seem to think so.

    <Travis> shepazu: It's potentially problematic for some UA's because
    the use the API internally for adding listeners...

    <Travis> ... we could just get DOM events out and then add the
    iterator later (in its own spec)

    <Travis> ... don't want to delay DOM3 Events for this. Rather settle
    on keyevents, etc. and publish this spec...

    <Travis> .... unless can resolve iterator open issue quickly.

    <Travis> Travis: I agree generally with what is said about not
    delaying...

    <Travis> ... unexpected resistence.

    <Travis> shepazu: App internal use, seems easy to hide events...

    <Travis> ... for extensions in FF, may be more complicated

    <Travis> Travis: the page may not want to see stuff added by
    extensions.

    <Travis> shepazu: Rather UI doesn't want to expose that to whomever
    controls the page.

    <Travis> Travis: possible security/privacy issue for scripted
    extensions. Maybe a profiling problem.

    <Travis> shepazu: problem could also exist for a framework/mashup.

    <Travis> Travis: frameworks want to control enumeration

    <Travis> Travis: Almost requires the addEventListener api to specify
    whether an event should be enumerated.

    <Travis> shepazu: It complicates scenarios.

    <Travis> ... Travis, please gather use-cases, reqs., etc., to
    continue to drive conversation.

    <Travis> ... continue out of context of DOM3 Events (so as to not
    block progress).

    <Travis> Travis: I think that's fine.

    <Travis> aemmons: It makes a lot of sense to identify the use cases.

    <Travis> shepazu: anyone opposed to this?

    <Travis> Resolution: Don't add event iterators in DOM3 Events,
    continue research for a later spec

    <Travis> Rationale: Don't want to delay DOM3 Events.

    <Travis> Travis: mjs what do you think of this?

    <shepazu> mjs, are you fine with this resolution?

    <mjs> I am fine with not including it for now

    <mjs> I do think we should still add it later if there is a use case

    <Travis> Travis: addEventListener('click', fCallback, false, 'don't
    enumerate'); :)

    <shepazu> for future reference

wiki access

    <Travis> shepazu: Proceedure to get wiki access

    <Travis> ... 1- make an account.

    <Travis> ... 2 - tell shepazu

    <Travis> ... 3 - he will grant access if the stars align

    <shepazu> [11]http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/Main_Page

      [11] http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/Main_Page

key events and key identifiers

    <shepazu> [12]http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/Key_Identifiers

      [12] http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/Key_Identifiers

    <Travis> shepazu: I added those 2 things for review

    <Travis> ... that link defines key identifiers (by Cameron)

    <Travis> shepazu: I think we should add this to the spec

    <shepazu> [13]http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/D3E_Scraps

      [13] http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/D3E_Scraps

    <Travis> shepazu: we need to send mail to folks to see if this is a
    reasonable approach

    <Travis> ... scraps from my local edit of the DOM3 events spec.
    Opens some issues/ expanded key identifiers section.

    <Travis> ... includes 8-direction arrow keys (up-left, etc.)

    <Travis> ... will ultimately have a table that includes Unicode map
    to actual character (U+XXX to "!")

    <Travis> ... as well as a table that maps charcode and keycode

    <Travis> ... added soft keys soft1..soft4

    <Travis> ... zoom key

    <Travis> ... (may not be in original list)

    <Travis> ... folks should go through the list and provide
    feedback--agree/disagree, and what's missing.

    <Travis> ... Think about mobile, alternate keyboards, etc. so that
    we can have a comprehensive list.

    <Travis> shepazu: There's a unicode value for the space key, but
    it's not a named key.

    <Travis> ... might be interesting to add that. (There's an 'enter'
    key after all...)

    <Travis> ... I'll post the issues defined in that scraps doc.

    <Travis> shepazu: What stuff do browsers test for event-related
    stuff. And record that data on the wiki

    <Travis> Travis: Do you want test cases?

    <Travis> shepazu: No, just tables of info (results)

    <shepazu> for keycode and charcode

    <shepazu>
    [14]http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/KeyCode_and_charCode

      [14] http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/KeyCode_and_charCode

    <Travis> shepazu: Let's devide and conquer

    <Travis> shepazu: Test that page on different OS/Browser
    combinations. OSX, Windows, etc.

    <Travis> ... each person can independently report results to find
    issues...

    <Travis> aemmons: For english keyboards?

    <Travis> shepazu: Let's ask others (don't know who) with non-english
    keyboards to test.

    <Travis> Carmelo: should this go right to the wiki?

    <Travis> shepazu: Either results in an HTML page...

    <Travis> ... well, you can send it to me, but I'd like it all on the
    wiki eventually

    <shepazu>
    [15]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2006Nov/att-0047
    /keyCode-ie.htm

      [15] 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2006Nov/att-0047/keyCode-ie.htm

    <Travis> Carmelo: In one page or multiple pages?

    <Travis> shepazu: Anne did some tests and reported the link above.

    <Travis> ... those are all for IE.

    <Travis> .... We don't have a specific format

    <Travis> ... There are some differences as IE doesn't have charCode.

    <Travis> ... When I get back I'd like to have a good compilation
    that we can review.

    <Travis> ... Then when I get back, we can integrate the different
    results into one table, and map that to key identifiers.

    <Travis> aemmons: Better to get the individual results in email and
    then merge later.

    <Travis> shepazu: What Anne has in the previous link is a good
    framework.

    <Travis> ... (groups keys by ranges for succinctness)

    <Travis> ... let's be thorough, though it might be a bit boring.

    <Travis> shepazu: aemmons will you coordinate this?

    <Travis> aemmons: yes.

    <Travis> ACTION: aemmons to coordinate charcode/keycode testing on
    multiple OS and browsers [recorded in
    [16]http://www.w3.org/2008/04/16-webapi-minutes.html#action01]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-275 - Coordinate charcode/keycode testing
    on multiple OS and browsers [on Andrew Emmons - due 2008-04-23].

    <Travis> shepazu: That's all that I had for this telecon.

    <Travis> ... anyone have other topics to discuss?

    <Travis> aemmons: Are we all set for mousewheel?

    <Travis> shepazu: I'll try to get to that soon (hopefully next
    week).

    <Travis> ... other issues?

    <Travis> Travis: Still have some outstanding actions...

    <Travis> shepazu: Reminder, I'll be out of office for a few weeks...

    <Travis> ... I'll be back 4 weeks from now.

    <Travis> ... should have email access.

    <Travis> ... Please have testing done by the time I get back.

    <Travis> shepazu: I think we could be in last call in about a month
    and a half.

Summary of Action Items

    [NEW] ACTION: aemmons to coordinate charcode/keycode testing on
    multiple OS and browsers [recorded in
    [17]http://www.w3.org/2008/04/16-webapi-minutes.html#action01]

    [End of minutes]
      _________________________________________________________


     Minutes formatted by David Booth's [18]scribe.perl version 1.133
     ([19]CVS log)
     $Date: 2008/04/16 19:32:53 $
      _________________________________________________________

      [18] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
      [19] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/

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Default Present: [Microsoft], Doug, aemmons, Carmelo
Present: [Microsoft] Doug aemmons Carmelo
Found Date: 16 Apr 2008
Guessing minutes URL: [21]http://www.w3.org/2008/04/16-webapi-minutes.h
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Received on Wednesday, 16 April 2008 20:07:58 GMT

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