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RE: [W3C Web Crypto WG] Rechartering discussion - Gemalto contribution

From: <Axel.Nennker@telekom.de>
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2015 10:09:58 +0100
To: <anders.rundgren.net@gmail.com>, <hillbrad@fb.com>, <karen.lu@gemalto.com>, <Virginie.Galindo@gemalto.com>, <public-web-security@w3.org>
CC: <wseltzer@w3.org>, <hhalpin@w3.org>, <anj@zurich.ibm.com>, <Kai.Rannenberg@m-chair.de>
Message-ID: <CE8995AB5D178F44A2154F5C9A97CAF40275BA132937@HE111541.emea1.cds.t-internal.com>
I very much welcome Gemalto's proposal. Thanks, Karen.

And I think we need more proposals and a discussion about "the existing web security and threat model" and how hardware fits.



Currently we have some deployments of smartcards on the web. We heard about them during the webcrypto.next workshop.

I use a browser and my company issued smart card several times a day to access company services.

I guess this is a fair use of the existing web security and threat model.



I do see the privacy problems when a site can enumerate all non-sop keys…

But is there agreement already that there is no solution to this problem?



The European Banking Authority published their guidelines in December referenced here:

http://www.europeanpaymentscouncil.eu/index.cfm/newsletter/article/?articles_uuid=D5C8466E-5056-B741-DBFC784E05936A15


“…An essential element for the EBA guidelines is the reliance on the concept of strong customer authentication.”



Europeans have EMVco with chip&pin and the rollout has started in the US. “The Web” can turn away from this but I think “it” should not.



I think the charter should allow the WG to work on these problems.

Maybe there will be a SOP-restricted API for signing/encryption/authentication/…

Maybe there will be a non-SOP-API for authentication

Maybe there will be a non-SOP-API for attribute-based credentials (idemix, uprove, abc4trust)



-Axel



-----Original Message-----
From: Anders Rundgren [mailto:anders.rundgren.net@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, January 30, 2015 6:42 AM
To: Brad Hill; Lu HongQian Karen; GALINDO Virginie; public-web-security@w3.org
Cc: Wendy Seltzer; Harry Halpin
Subject: Re: [W3C Web Crypto WG] Rechartering discussion - Gemalto contribution



On 2015-01-29 23:50, Brad Hill wrote:

> I would like to see details of how this kind of API would or could interact with the Same-Origin model of web security, specifically:

>

>  1. Privacy and tracking.  How does the presence of specific crypto elements and discoverable keys which are not Origin-scoped not create privacy violations?

>

> 2. Origin security.  How are risks around identification of or impersonation of the server-side of a transaction, and potential abuse of a globally-scope key mitigated by  this kind of API design?

>

> Without a clear discussion of how this API fits into the existing Web security and threat model, I think it is inappropriate to proceed.  We can't just throw away the fundamental security model that billions of users and deployed applications depend on, and I see no evidence (at least in these few slides) that such issues have been considered by this proposal.



+1



I sent a bunch of similar questions privately.



Assuming that the scheme indeed *is* SOP compliant a number of other questions arise such as:

- What does this offer that U2F doesn't already have?

- What are the thought applications for SOP-constrained certificates?



Then I would of course be very interested hearing how this specification matches the following bold statement by the W3C



              http://www.w3.org/2015/01/banker_payments.pdf




given the fact that



              Secure AND Convenient Web Payments



haven't really progressed the last 20 years or so.

If you consider usage and importance also, it has actually moved in the *opposite* direction.



Cheers

Anders Rundgren



>

> Brad Hill

>

> From: Lu HongQian Karen <karen.lu@gemalto.com

> <mailto:karen.lu@gemalto.com>>

> Date: Wednesday, January 28, 2015 at 10:01 AM

> To: GALINDO Virginie <Virginie.Galindo@gemalto.com

> <mailto:Virginie.Galindo@gemalto.com>>, "public-webcrypto@w3.org

> <mailto:public-webcrypto@w3.org>" <public-webcrypto@w3.org

> <mailto:public-webcrypto@w3.org>>

> Cc: "public-web-security@w3.org <mailto:public-web-security@w3.org><mailto:public-web-security@w3.org%20%3cmailto:public-web-security@w3.org%3e>"

> <public-web-security@w3.org <mailto:public-web-security@w3.org<mailto:public-web-security@w3.org%20%3cmailto:public-web-security@w3.org>>>,

> Wendy Seltzer <wseltzer@w3.org <mailto:wseltzer@w3.org<mailto:wseltzer@w3.org%20%3cmailto:wseltzer@w3.org>>>, Harry Halpin

> <hhalpin@w3.org <mailto:hhalpin@w3.org<mailto:hhalpin@w3.org%20%3cmailto:hhalpin@w3.org>>>

> Subject: RE: [W3C Web Crypto WG] Rechartering discussion - Gemalto

> contribution

> Resent-From: <public-web-security@w3.org

> <mailto:public-web-security@w3.org>>

> Resent-Date: Wednesday, January 28, 2015 at 10:04 AM

>

>     Please review Gemalto’s contribution. We welcome your comments.

>

>     Regards,

>

>     Karen

>

>     *From:*GALINDO Virginie [mailto:Virginie.Galindo@gemalto.com]

>     *Sent:* Wednesday, January 07, 2015 3:48 AM

>     *To:* public-webcrypto@w3.org<mailto:public-webcrypto@w3.org> <mailto:public-webcrypto@w3.org>

>     *Cc:* public-web-security@w3.org<mailto:public-web-security@w3.org> <mailto:public-web-security@w3.org>; Wendy Seltzer; Harry Halpin

>     *Subject:* [W3C Web Crypto WG] Rechartering discussion

>

>     Dear all,

>

>     Web Crypto WG charter [1] will end by the end of March. We need to prepare the next charter of Web Crypto.

>

>     As a reminder, the conversation has started on this page :

> https://www.w3.org/Security/wiki/IG/webcryptonext_draft_charter


>

>     Feel free to add you ideas and suggestions on the wiki and/or expose your opinion and question on the public-webcrypto@w3.org<mailto:public-webcrypto@w3.org> <mailto:public-webcrypto@w3.org> or public-webcrypto-comment@w3.org<mailto:public-webcrypto-comment@w3.org> <mailto:public-webcrypto-comment@w3.org> (for non W3C Web Crypto WG members).

>

>     Regards,

>

>     Virginie

>

>     [1] http://www.w3.org/2011/11/webcryptography-charter.html


>

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Received on Friday, 30 January 2015 09:10:41 UTC

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