W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-web-security@w3.org > November 2014

Re: [Web Crypto Next] Lets start discussing !

From: Siva Narendra <siva@tyfone.com>
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2014 14:46:08 -0800
Message-ID: <CAJhTYQy2be0eMMmVcr8omhksjsqBONx829+8tC9YeDBTFZOt5A@mail.gmail.com>
To: Sanjeev Verma <s2.verma@samsung.com>
Cc: helpcrypto helpcrypto <helpcrypto@gmail.com>, "public-web-security@w3.org" <public-web-security@w3.org>, Anders Rundgren <anders.rundgren.net@gmail.com>, "Virginie.Galindo@gemalto.com" <Virginie.Galindo@gemalto.com>
Agreed. The question is where does such an effort belong within W3C.
Webcrypto WG may not be the right place for it within W3C given the WG's
charter. The "pipe" maybe best done in a stand alone WG only because there
are various efforts including unfinished ones such as the Gemalto+Deutsche
Telecom's SE API proposal to W3C.

-Siva


*--*


*Siva G. Narendra Ph.D. CEO - Tyfone, Inc.Portland | Bangalore |
Taipeiwww.tyfone.com <http://www.tyfone.com>*
*Voice: +1.661.412.2233*


On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 1:22 PM, Sanjeev Verma <s2.verma@samsung.com> wrote:

>  Hello HelpCrypto,
>
>
>
> It is true that FIDO is not an open organization but you can download the
> specs from their website.
>
>
>
> https://fidoalliance.org/specifications/download/
>
>
>
> FIDO U2F addresses a very different use case (primarily for mobile payment
> or strong authentication) —it allows a user to carry a Web Key-Chain in the
> hardware token. It generates a public-private key pair for a Relying Party
> and sends the public key & a key handle to the Relying party (RP)at
> registration time. The Relying party identifies the key through a key
> handle. Later it is used for authentication between the user and the
> Relying party: the user first authenticates to the RP using PIN/Password
> and then authenticates ( second factor) to the RP by signing the challenge
> using the  private key.
>
>
>
> You are talking about a different use case where the hardware token stores
> certs from different CAs to sign documents. FIDO specs currently do not
> address this use case.
>
>
>
> Probably you should have a look at the email conversation that I had with
> Siva. I was thinking more in terms of standardizing the Web App-Plugin
> interface ( “pipe”) that will accommodate both FIDO use case and the use
> case that you are referring to.
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
>
>
> Sanjeev
>
>
>
> *From:* helpcrypto helpcrypto [mailto:helpcrypto@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 06, 2014 12:44 AM
> *To:* public-web-security@w3.org
> *Cc:* Anders Rundgren; Sanjeev Verma; Virginie.Galindo@gemalto.com
> *Subject:* Re: [Web Crypto Next] Lets start discussing !
>
>
>
> Hi
>
>  Anders: as you seem to have the decisive voice in here, since our last
> talk, what has changed?
>
>   As you know, I'm of the opinion that is better to keep smartcards as
> secure elements where keys can be stored, than throwing all to the recycle
> bin.
> In our case we have a JavaCard, so we could even stablish a mutual trust
> channel between server and card for population process. Older cards are
> probably a bigger problem ;)
>
> It's true that PKI doesnt support "key usages for specific domains",
> something FIDO does. Does anyone know a way to implement this using
> traditional PKI?
>
> Can you imagine/describe a secure/valid scenario where smartcards are one
> possible secure keystore for a PKI cert, being possible to auth+sign
> documents using Javascript? (do it with all the effort/strengh of your
> imagination!!!)
>
>
>
>
>
> Sanjeev: AFAIK, FIDO group is not open neither open to community
> participation.
>
> IIRC, there was a possibility of loading a FIDO applet inside my
> Javacard+requesting a PIN to login, even a RAW/APDU spec.
>
>
>
> As FIDO is not PKI based, will that mean I have to dump what I already
> have? (millions of certs from different CAs used by millions of users to
> auth and sign documents?
>
>
>
> Actually we do this using an awful applet, and thats what we want to avoid.
>
>
>
>
>
> Perfect is the enemy of good. Perhaps we should reach an
> agreement-solution.
>
> PS: Virgine (): based on your experience, does people from the Webcrypto
> WG have anything to say related to this? I know smartcards were out of
> scope. were the different viewpoints the reason? do they 'like' the idea of
> including smartcards on spec? Do manufacturer/providers/vendors/big actors
> have something to say? is FIDO what they say?
>
>
>
> Regards
>
>
>
>
>
Received on Thursday, 6 November 2014 22:46:56 UTC

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