- From: Marcos Caceres <w3c@marcosc.com>
- Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2014 14:10:54 -0400
- To: public-web-mobile@w3.org
HTML version:
http://www.w3.org/2014/07/16-webmob-minutes.html
- DRAFT -
Web and Mobile Interest Group Teleconference
16 Jul 2014
[2]Agenda
[2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-mobile/2014Jul/0026.html
See also: [3]IRC log
[3] http://www.w3.org/2014/07/16-webmob-irc
Attendees
Present
+1.905.873.aaaa, +1.717.553.aabb, dom, [IPcaller],
+1.857.300.aacc, ArtB, ianmaffett, mbaker, tobie,
kawada, +1.908.559.aadd, +44.773.051.aaee, dansun, dka,
Ilya, wuwei
Regrets
Chair
Natasha
Scribe
Marcos
Contents
* [4]Topics
1. [5]OMA liaison statement
2. [6]wake lock use cases
3. [7]Service Workers
4. [8]AOB
* [9]Summary of Action Items
__________________________________________________________
<trackbot> Date: 16 July 2014
<scribe> Scribe: Marcos
<scribe> scribenick: marcos_home
<bogdanovichiy> ok thanks
<schuki>
[10]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-mobile/2014J
ul/0026.html
[10] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-mobile/2014Jul/0026.html
OMA liaison statement
<ArtB> [11]head of OMA liaison thread
[11] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-mobile/2014Jul/0016.html
schuki: can you give us a bit of background about the OMA and
the liaison
?
dom: sure. We have an relationship with the OMA where they
sometimes send us APIs and various documents to review. They've
been creating guidelines for API creation - and were informing
us of their work to see if there was any chance for
collaboration + for review.
<schuki>
[12]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-mobile/2014J
ul/thread.html
[12] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-mobile/2014Jul/thread.html
<mbaker> 15 years more like :)
schuki: there was some feedback, but Mark Baker raised some
concerns about the APIs being "RESTful"
<schuki> webrtc:
[13]http://technical.openmobilealliance.org/Technical/technical
-information/release-program/current-releases/rest_netapi_webrt
csignaling_v1_0
[13] http://technical.openmobilealliance.org/Technical/technical-information/release-program/current-releases/rest_netapi_webrtcsignaling_v1_0
<dom> [14]OMA API Inventory (grouped by protocol binding)
[14] http://technical.openmobilealliance.org/Technical/technical-information/oma-api-program/protocol-bindings
mbaker: I used to collaborate with the OMA when they were WAP
helping them understand the web. I looked at the work that they
were doing and at a random set of their APIs. They have
structured the APIs in such a way that you replace bits of
URIs. My concern is that the approach is not particularly
RESTful.
<dka> 1. Is there something we can suggest back to them?
<schuki>
[15]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-mobile/2014J
ul/0023.html
[15] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-mobile/2014Jul/0023.html
<dka> 2. (with respect) is it not true that the definition of
REST APIs has become somewhat fuzzy?
schuki: so, then Brian responded ^^^ saying what they were
trying to achieve.
<mbaker> hey!
dka: 1. Is there something we can suggest back to them?
<ArtB> +1 to DKA re providing some constructive details to OMA
<ArtB> I wonder if Mark would be willing to take such an
action, or perhaps the TAG could reply?
<mbaker> i'd be happy to art
<ArtB> awesome mbaker!
dka: my interest is from an architectural standpoint (being
from the TAG). What can we suggest to them in constructive
manner in regards to REST? Is that not a kind of narrow def. of
REST?
... I do wonder if the general use of the word REST has
expanded in the last few years - with regards to URL
structures, etc? That's my sense.
mbaker: sure, it the term has expanded a bit. Yes, there has
been some drift with regards to what REST is in the wider
community - but the REST community is trying to help by
bringing it back to Roy's dissertation. This does mean that
everything needs to be done with REST - but REST as per Roy's
dissertation has a fairly strict meaning.
<ArtB> in the broader context of the IoT/WoT, it seems like it
would be important for OMA to make sure it's Service and
Enabler APIs are consistent with the `rest of the Web`. As
such, guidelines and advice from W3C seems appropritate
<Zakim> dom, you wanted to avoid the architectural debate and
instead understand how different architectural decisions would
help OMA / the Web on mobile networks
dka: that sounds like a good way forward. I would like to
involve the TAG. We have a TAG F2F coming up next week so we
can add it to the agenda.
<mbaker> wfm. the TAG hasn't yet decided the role of REST in
Web architecture
<dom> dom: we should note the terminology question
<dom> ... but we shouldn't stop to it
<dom> ... we should see if proper RESTful design would help OMA
achieve its goals with its APIS
<dka> To dom’s point - this should be about the Web, and if it
is then it means the APIs being described should be available
on the Web, not just in closed networks…
<ArtB> I agree with Dom, that guidance, recommendations and
such here will benefit other communities besides OMA
<dom> ... and probably only do so if we feel that these APIs
are important to the Web on mobil
<dka> that could be a feedback point from webmob...
schuki: I think Dan's suggestion is good. It might be good to
wait to for the TAG to have their F2F. We should provide
feedback after that.
<mbaker> +1 to dom, art
dom: what we requesting feedback on is how to create RESTful
APIs for the Web
... I think there were several good points raised - but it
would be good if we could send specific feedback to them
schuki: I can put something together
<mbaker> lol
<dka> Would someone be willing to join the TAG meeting by phone
next week to talk about this? Marcos?
I'm on vacation next week, dka
<dom> ACTION: Natasha to write up summary of OMA discussions
[recorded in
[16]http://www.w3.org/2014/07/16-webmob-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-103 - Write up summary of oma
discussions [on Natasha Rooney - due 2014-07-23].
schuki: I might be able to join
<dom> ACTION: DKA to bring RESTful APIs discussion to TAG
agenda [recorded in
[17]http://www.w3.org/2014/07/16-webmob-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-104 - Bring restful apis discussion
to tag agenda [on Daniel Appelquist - due 2014-07-23].
<dom> ACTION: baker to provide more detailed analysis of OMA
APIs and RESTful design [recorded in
[18]http://www.w3.org/2014/07/16-webmob-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Error finding 'baker'. You can review and register
nicknames at <[19]http://www.w3.org/Mobile/IG/track/users>.
[19] http://www.w3.org/Mobile/IG/track/users%3E.
schuki: thanks to Mark for joining!
<mbaker> good to hear so many familiar voices again :)
wake lock use cases
<schuki> marcos_home: we started work about a month ago
<schuki> ... last few weeks it's getting towards being doing
<schuki> [20]https://github.com/w3c-webmob/wake-lock-use-cases
[20] https://github.com/w3c-webmob/wake-lock-use-cases
repo^^
[21]http://w3c-webmob.github.io/wake-lock-use-cases/
[21] http://w3c-webmob.github.io/wake-lock-use-cases/
<schuki> marcos_home: that's the repo
<schuki> marcos_home: and the document
<schuki> marcos_home: i took the stuff dom started on - looking
at apis on other platforms
<schuki> ... we gathered a set of apps which exemplified this
behaviour
<schuki> ... an interesting one that needed this was google
cardboard - so they're hacking around this with video elements
to get this
<schuki> marcos_home: lots of contributors including google
<schuki> ... need a few more use cases
<dom> [22][whatwg] Proposal: Wake Lock API
[22] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-whatwg-archive/2014Jul/0101.html
<schuki> marcos_home: we're now ready to make an api out of
this
<schuki> [23]https://github.com/w3c-webmob/web-api-gap
[23] https://github.com/w3c-webmob/web-api-gap
[24]https://github.com/w3c/screen-wake/pull/9
[24] https://github.com/w3c/screen-wake/pull/9
<schuki> marcos_home: we have been capturing the progress of
the discussions re next steps
<dom> dom: how do you envision the next steps?
<schuki> marcos_home: ilya proposed an api, i changed it, so
we'll keep revise it based on these discussions
<schuki> ... moz have an implementation, slightly different in
ffos
<bogdanovichiy> sorry, connection problems, I’ll stay on irc
<schuki> ... not sure how long it will take, depends a little
on dap
marcos_home: we can publish it when Dom and I are back from
vacation.
DAMMIT!!!!
<Zakim> dom, you wanted to SysApps vs DAP
<dom> Dom: Sysapps has been created to host APIs that can't fit
in the current Web security model; the Wake Lock APi seems to
be a good fit for the current security model, hence DAP
Service Workers
<schuki> [25]https://github.com/w3c-webmob/ServiceWorkersDemos
[25] https://github.com/w3c-webmob/ServiceWorkersDemos
schuki: we have the SW demos repo ^^^ - which has some apps we
would like to build. So, even though the implementations are
still not quite there, it's possible to get started on those.
... basically, if someone has build something they would like
to share - please send it to us
<schuki> [26]https://github.com/w3c-webmob/serviceworker.org
[26] https://github.com/w3c-webmob/serviceworker.org
<dka> Of note to the group:
[27]http://googlewebmastercentral.blogspot.co.uk/2014/07/promot
ing-modern-websites-for-modern.html - “Starting today, we will
indicate to searchers when our algorithms detect pages that may
not work on their devices.”
[27] http://googlewebmastercentral.blogspot.co.uk/2014/07/promoting-modern-websites-for-modern.html
schuki: with the interest in SWs, there has been a lot of info
on the Web. So we've started a repo to bring everything into
one place.
<tobie> Website is here: [28]http://www.serviceworker.org/
[28] http://www.serviceworker.org/
<tobie> This is not ready for public consumption atm.
schuki: thanks to Tobie for getting this started. The folks
from FT labs also started a similar service (serviceworker.io)
... right now, we are trying to work out how to serve
everything over HTTPs, etc.
... currently, looking for hints + tips about debugging SWs
tobie: I talked with the FT labs together and we are probably
going to merge the .org and the .io sites.
<dka> +1
heh
schuki: do you have any update from the Moz side?
tobie: waiting for the cache API to stabilize, I think
... mozilla and google have the whole SW side of things
working... but without the cache
... if you have issues, please let us know on GitHub
dka: there was some discussions on twitter on implementing
appcache (with fixes) with ServiceWorker.
... There was the opinion that AppCache is pretty good... and
could be tweaked to be fit for purpose. And if AppCache could
be implemented with SWs. It seems to me like an easy win if
AppCache could be implemented and fixed through SWs.
<dka> (and as usual all this discussion is just somewhere on
twitter rather than anywhere that can be easilly found…)
tobie: it's a reasonable request. The problem with appcache is
that there is a lot of magic going on under the hood. It would
be fine for simple examples - but then the question remains
"what is the point?"
+q
tobie: would be good to break up the API into it's component
parts when explaining it. E.g., the cache, how fetch works,
etc. Having good docs that breaks up the different components,
etc. should make this API more palatable.
... I don't think people are going create AppCache-like
declarative solutions as they are not very compelling. There
are more interesting things that can be made with the API
AOB
<schuki> [29]http://www.w3.org/2014/07/permissions/
[29] http://www.w3.org/2014/07/permissions/
<dom> [30]https://github.com/dontcallmedom/web-permissions-req/
[30] https://github.com/dontcallmedom/web-permissions-req/
<schuki> [31]http://www.w3.org/2014/05/wp-trust-permissions/
[31] http://www.w3.org/2014/05/wp-trust-permissions/
<dom> [32]Dave introducing his paper to SysApps
[32] http://www.w3.org/mid/53C64373.60904@w3.org
schuki: we had a breakout call about permissions. Dave Raggett
told us about the workshop that is happening in Sep. Dom gave
us and overview of work he had been doing. Dave also pointed us
to the paper on the topic he had been working on.
<schuki>
[33]https://github.com/w3c-webmob/identity/blob/master/README.m
d
[33] https://github.com/w3c-webmob/identity/blob/master/README.md
<schuki>
[34]http://www.w3.org/2012/webcrypto/webcrypto-next-workshop/Ov
erview.html
[34] http://www.w3.org/2012/webcrypto/webcrypto-next-workshop/Overview.html
schuki: Identity - we are still trying to gather use cases and
reqs around this topic. The Web Crypto group is interested in
this topic and have asked us to provide some.
... ... some use cases and requirements.
... if you have any ideas for additional breakout calls. Please
let us know.
<dom> [35]https://github.com/dontcallmedom/web-bluetooth
[35] https://github.com/dontcallmedom/web-bluetooth
<Zakim> dom, you wanted to mention bluetooth work
dom: I've been looking at the link between bluetooth and web
apps. Hopefully I'll do a bit more research on it in Aug.
Looking at how the web platform could benefit from accessing
BlueTooth.
schuki: our next call will be in Aug.
<schuki> thanks all!
trackbot, make minutes public
<trackbot> Sorry, marcos_home, I don't understand 'trackbot,
make minutes public'. Please refer to
<[36]http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc> for help.
[36] http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc%3E
trackbot, end meeting
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: baker to provide more detailed analysis of OMA
APIs and RESTful design [recorded in
[37]http://www.w3.org/2014/07/16-webmob-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: DKA to bring RESTful APIs discussion to TAG
agenda [recorded in
[38]http://www.w3.org/2014/07/16-webmob-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: Natasha to write up summary of OMA discussions
[recorded in
[39]http://www.w3.org/2014/07/16-webmob-minutes.html#action01]
[End of minutes]
__________________________________________________________
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$Date: 2014-07-16 15:06:56 $
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[40] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
[41] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/
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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)
Succeeded: s/it's APIs/it's Service and Enabler APIs/
Succeeded: s/dka/schuki/
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Found Scribe: Marcos
Found ScribeNick: marcos_home
Default Present: +1.905.873.aaaa, +1.717.553.aabb, dom, [IPcaller], +1.8
57.300.aacc, ArtB, ianmaffett, mbaker, tobie, kawada, +1.908.559.aadd, +
44.773.051.aaee, dansun, dka, Ilya, wuwei
Present: +1.905.873.aaaa +1.717.553.aabb dom [IPcaller] +1.857.300.aacc
ArtB ianmaffett mbaker tobie kawada +1.908.559.aadd +44.773.051.aaee dan
sun dka Ilya wuwei
Agenda: [43]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-mobile/2014Ju
l/0026.html
Found Date: 16 Jul 2014
Guessing minutes URL: [44]http://www.w3.org/2014/07/16-webmob-minutes.ht
ml
People with action items: baker dka natasha
[43] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-mobile/2014Jul/0026.html
[44] http://www.w3.org/2014/07/16-webmob-minutes.html
WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines.
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--
Marcos Caceres
Received on Wednesday, 16 July 2014 18:11:29 UTC