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Re: [profile] Profile spec title

From: Giuseppe Pascale <giuseppep@opera.com>
Date: Wed, 08 Feb 2012 12:52:36 +0100
To: "Scott Wilson" <scott.bradley.wilson@gmail.com>, "Masahito Kawamori" <masahito.kawamori@ties.itu.int>
Cc: "Jan Lindquist" <jan.lindquist@ericsson.com>, "Vickers, Mark" <Mark_Vickers@cable.comcast.com>, "public-web-and-tv@w3.org WG" <public-web-and-tv@w3.org>
Message-ID: <op.v9cy9yp96ugkrk@giuseppep-x220>
On Wed, 08 Feb 2012 12:13:33 +0100, Masahito Kawamori  
<masahito.kawamori@ties.itu.int> wrote:

> Thanks, Scott
>
> Taking also into account Mr Dewa's point, and rather than just
> singling out a CE device, may be we can talk about  a resource limited
> device?
>
> Then combining Giuseppe's original two proposals with the above
> discussion, how would the following sound?:
>
> 3.  "Web and TV profile"
>     - Guidelines for integration of web technologies for
> resource-limited devices in a browser-based environment --
>
> (It is a mechanical combination and permutation of the terms mentioned
> so far. We may need to seriously check the semantics of these phrases)
>

Maybe we should take one step back as suggested by John and make sure we  
agree on the scope of this work.
While resource limited devices are for sure on of the main targets, there  
is a "functional" part of the profile that is applicable to all kind of  
devices.

As I see it we have the following main components:
1. performance based profile: how to measure performances of some  
technologies (e.g. CSS animations) and how to profile out support for such  
technologies based on a minimal performance requirement.
2. content adaptation: which technologies needs to be supported in order  
to enable applications that can easily self adapt to the widest range of  
devices (tablets, PCs, TVs, Blueray discs, etc). This cover thing like CSS  
media queries but also discussion about different input paradigms (remote  
control, pointer based, touch)
3. Formats: are there widely adopted formats (for video, audio, images)  
that you would need to support to be interoperable?
4. Protocols and platform capabilities: I do I get access to the needed  
information from the underlying protocols (and do I need to get access to  
them?). This covers things like adaptive streaming, drm, metadata  
associated with the stream.

So in short I think we have 50% performance related requirements (so  
mostly valid for ce devices) and 50% functional requirements (applicable  
to all devices)

Is there any agreement that this is the scope? If so, is this well  
refelected in the current draft (and if not, what should we change?
I think the following section would benefit from people review:

Design Goals
http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webtv/raw-file/tip/tvprofile/tv.html#design-goals

Scope
http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webtv/raw-file/tip/tvprofile/tv.html#scope


Given the variety of opinions, I still think the provisional  
title+subtitle we have now is good.
The only alternative to "TV" I can come up with to reflect our community  
is "Commercial Video Services".
But I think that making it clear in the text (rather than in the title)  
would be enough.


/g

> Cheers
>
> Masahito
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 7:52 PM, Scott Wilson
> <scott.bradley.wilson@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On 8 Feb 2012, at 10:25, Masahito Kawamori wrote:
>>
>>> Giuseppe, all
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 5:48 PM, Giuseppe Pascale <giuseppep@opera.com>  
>>> wrote:
>>> [snip]
>>>>
>>>> Having read all the comments so far I still think the best compromise
>>>> between different opinions is
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Web and TV profile"
>>>> Guidelines for integration of interactive video services in a  
>>>> browser-based
>>>> environment
>>>
>>> I agree.  (but then again, the question may remain, "hasn't that been
>>> the intention of HTML5 <video>?". Well, it is ok for the time being,
>>> as a straw man, at least.)
>>>
>>
>> Yes... for me the spec is more like a HTML5 profile for web  
>> applications on CE devices than anything to do with video services.
>>
>>>>
>>>> possible variation
>>>>
>>>> "WebTV profile"
>>>>
>>>> Guidelines for integration of interactive video services in a  
>>>> browser-based
>>>> environment
>>>
>>> Would not probably work, as pointed out by Yusuke.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> Masahito
>>>
>>>
>>>> /g
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> mav
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Feb 7, 2012, at 9:58 AM, Jan Lindquist wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>> The profile is not only about HTML5 but other W3c standards so it  
>>>>>> would
>>>>>> be misleading to have HTML5 in the title. In the spirit of the IG  
>>>>>> how about
>>>>>> "web and TV profile". The name of the profile is not as critical as  
>>>>>> knowing
>>>>>> the breadth of the areas it should cover. This profile may live for  
>>>>>> a while
>>>>>> and it in the context of the industry attempt to influence the work  
>>>>>> in W3C
>>>>>> with a clear list of specs that are being used and how they may be  
>>>>>> used. It
>>>>>> will become a reference point by other standard groups. By using  
>>>>>> the same
>>>>>> name as the IG it can help see the relationship.
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>> JanL
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: Vickers, Mark [mailto:Mark_Vickers@cable.comcast.com]
>>>>>>> Sent: den 7 februari 2012 15:24
>>>>>>> To: Giuseppe Pascale
>>>>>>> Cc: public-web-and-tv@w3.org WG
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [profile] Profile spec title
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> How about "HTML5 Video Services Profile"?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Feb 7, 2012, at 3:28 AM, Giuseppe Pascale wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, 06 Feb 2012 17:26:40 +0100, Vickers, Mark
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <Mark_Vickers@cable.comcast.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 5. Title: The goal for me is a profile of HTML5 for video
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> services. There are two differences with "Web&TV Profile".
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> - I want to include HTML5 in the title because this is
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> HTML5-related
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> and HTM5-centric
>>>>>>>>> - I don't like including "TV". This continues to cause
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> confusion. It is clearer to describe an HTML5 profile for
>>>>>>> video services.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't have strong opinions on the title but I would note
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> the following:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - A title should be short ( the subtitle explains a bit
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> more what we are doing).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - I've tried to use the word "TV services" in the subtitle that is
>>>>>>>> hopefully a bit less confusing (or maybe not?). I have defined  
>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>> term as
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "For the purposes of this document a TV service is a
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> commercial video service that may include elements of
>>>>>>> interactivity and that provides a coherent user experience.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - while this profile is html5 based this is not only about
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> html5. I'm not against highlighting the HTML5 centric
>>>>>>> approach but I wouldn't call this "an html5 profile".
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So in short: I'm fine with your comments but I cannot come
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> up with a better title/subtitle. Suggestions are welcome.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> /g
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> See you on the call.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>> mav
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Feb 6, 2012, at 6:15 AM, Giuseppe Pascale wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> One note: the zakim bridge is overbooked.
>>>>>>>>>> So just in case we see that people have problem dialing
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> in (in such
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> case please login on IRC and let us know) I set-up this
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Opera bridge.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> NOTE: ONLY TO BE USED IF WE SEE THAT ZAKIM DOESN'T WORK
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Phone bridge details:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Conference ID:            33909
>>>>>>>>>> Start Date and Time:      Monday 06.02.2012 17:00:00 CET/CEST
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Bridge Numbers:
>>>>>>>>>> Norway                           +47 23 69 26 03
>>>>>>>>>> USA                                +1 800 201 4229 (Toll-Free)
>>>>>>>>>> Poland (Wroclaw)                +48 71 719 6099
>>>>>>>>>> Poland (Warsaw)                 +48 22 262 0799
>>>>>>>>>> Japan                             +81 3 5435 8394
>>>>>>>>>> Russia                            +7 812 448 7876
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Conference Name:          tv profile
>>>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>> Please contact SysAdmin at +47 23 69 33 60 for assistance.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> /g
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 06 Feb 2012 12:06:15 +0100, Giuseppe Pascale
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <giuseppep@opera.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Here the call details for todays call
>>>>>>>>>>> (http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/Profile/Telco)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Schedule: Monday, 16:00Z (=8:00 Pacific, 11:00 Eastern, 17:00
>>>>>>>>>>> Europe, 01:00 Korea/Japan)
>>>>>>>>>>> Phone: US: +1 617 761 6200 or SIP: zakim@voip.w3.org Conference
>>>>>>>>>>> Code: 26632 IRC channel: #webtv
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> And here the Agenda for todays call:
>>>>>>>>>>> (http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/Profile/Agenda_Telco_6/2/2012)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> * Review of Charter
>>>>>>>>>>> (http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/Profile/Charter)
>>>>>>>>>>> * Call schedule
>>>>>>>>>>> * TF tools (http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/Profile)
>>>>>>>>>>> * Process
>>>>>>>>>>> * Initial feedbacks on the draft
>>>>>>>>>>> (http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webtv/raw-file/tip/tvprofile/tv.html)
>>>>>>>>>>> * AOB
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> /g
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 03 Feb 2012 17:00:59 +0100, Giuseppe Pascale
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <giuseppep@opera.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>>>>> the poll [1] is now closed and the winner is...
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Monday, February 6, 2012 4:00 PM - 5:00 PM UTC
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> In this first call we will discuss the scope of the TV
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> profile work, how do we want the group to be organized and
>>>>>>> timeline (if any).
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> If you have any other topic you want to add to the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> agenda let me know.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'll send around call details ASAP.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> [1] http://doodle.com/h6rfnkrqyi3uinpi
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Giuseppe Pascale
>>>>>>>>>> TV & Connected Devices
>>>>>>>>>> Opera Software
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Giuseppe Pascale
>>>>>>>> TV & Connected Devices
>>>>>>>> Opera Software
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Giuseppe Pascale
>>>> TV & Connected Devices
>>>> Opera Software
>>>>
>>>
>>


-- 
Giuseppe Pascale
TV & Connected Devices
Opera Software
Received on Wednesday, 8 February 2012 11:56:16 UTC

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